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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-02-2007 10:00 PM
Maine Sail
No need for 5200

you already have a mechanical seal! 5200 is a totally over rated product and the biggest scam put forth on the uneducated boating public I've ever seen. The ONLY place for 5200 or any product like it is a keel joint and even there I'd use Sikaflex over 5200 because it remains more flexible than 5200. Even a hul to deck joint will flex to much for 5200 over the long term. The three products I'd use would be UV4000, 101 or "Sikaflex 291 LOT" with the edge going to 291 LOT. All these products have better flexibility for the expansion / contraction between the wood and fiberglass than does 5200. 5200 is for boatyards who want future repair business or novice boaters who know no differently. I know quite a few of the top quality yards here in Maine use Sikaflex exclusively and NOT 3M 5200. Sika Flex 291 LOT has a 700% elongation at break while according to 3M 5200 is 350% so 291 is twice as flexible. Flexible is what you need between dissimilar products like wood and gelcoat.

Noting and I repeat NOTHING on a boat is a permanent seal. Trust me I had to re-bed my keel that was originally bedded with 5200. Once the keel bolts were loose they jacked my boat up but the keel was still holding on in certain areas. After letting it hang for a few days they began with Oak wedges. No Luck! They actually had to use a sawzall to get my keel off in the end. The problem was when they got about half way through the weight of the keel literally ripped and delaminated the fiberglass keel stub. They then had to repair that. The keel on that boat was put back together 10 years ago with Sika Flex NOT 5200. The reason it needed to be re-beded in the first place was because it was not flexible enough after a few years and began leaking! Don't believe me here's what 3M has to say..

"Because 5200 is so strong and its primary use is for permanent applications like those in hull-to-deck bonding, 3M introduced 4200, which is about half as strong and is more suitable for general-purpose applications. ďIf you want to get [the adhesive] off, go with the 4200, says Dewey."

5200 is one of the few products that will NEVER set foot on my boat Sikaflex is more flexible over time and more than strong enough for ANY boat application. Sikaflex 291 is about the same adhesion as 4200 but more flexible!!
03-02-2007 06:46 PM
jefftalan I also had a problem with a toerail on a boat I chartered last summer in Sardinia - perhaps someone could assist. A long story short, as part of our docking maneuver(!), we broke off a stanchion mount bracket and a section of teak from the toerail of our chartered Bavaria 47. We were charged $3200 to have it fixed. Does this seem like a lot to you?
The 6 foot section of pre-cut toerail could probably have been ordered from BAvaria along with the stanchion mount. Bolt the new stanchion bracket into place and install the new toerail piece after removing the old. How could that cost $3200? We are disputing the charge with the credit card co.
02-22-2007 12:25 PM
gc1111 Bed the whole thing. I have a toerail cap that I have to use Cetol on because it needs rebedding. I tried varnish several years but the moisture comes up from below because the seal has decayed (it has been about 35 years since it was applied). The moisture just lifts the varnish off the teak. Doesn't last more than a couple of months. Even if you are not planning to varnish it now, you might change your mind - so go with your choice, but do the whole thing.
02-09-2007 03:20 PM
1970Columbia34 Well hoping the screws hold long enough for the 5200 to setup and if needed we will use clamps to hold the curve tell the 5200 sets up. thanks for the link.
02-09-2007 12:20 PM
camaraderie Here's what ya problem on awlgrip. Just to be are not using those screws into the fibergless to maintain the bend you are inducing right?
02-09-2007 11:45 AM
1970Columbia34 The floor will be harder to bend I am sure then regular teak would be but from flexing it in the shop it looks like it would be a problem, Robert can you suggest a solvent to clean the 5200 with that won't damage the awlgrip topcoat or the pre-varnished toe rail?

We have also cut some of the flooring into slats for a cockpit floor and seats. There are lots of diffrent kinds of teak out there we got to choose between regular teak and a brazlin teak which we choose cause it matched our existing wood work better.
02-09-2007 11:34 AM
Tartan34C Steam bending wood is easy but not what most people expect. We have a steam box and bend frames and steam the hood ends of some planks for boats we build. If you try to steam bend kilm dried wood you will not succeed. Wood needs to be green for steam bending to work. Teak is hard to steam bend no mater what you do because it is brittle and has a lot of oil which interferes with steaming.

In the past I have bent Teak cold for toerails and you just need to be careful and go slowly. I am surprised that you can bend teak flooring. It is very dry and if I had to guess before you said that it was bendable I would have said itís too brittle. I donít know the flooring business but the word in the shop is that they use Iroko instead of Teak. Iroko is a tougher less expensive wood but is even more brittle then Teak so its harder to bend without breaking.

One suggestion I would make would be to make the cutout for chocks and such after bending and bolting the toerail down. If you cut the toerail first it tends to break or at least bend unevenly at the cutouts. After it has set on the boat and the bend is fixed you can cut for the chocks without risking a break.

As far as clean up goes I always found it better to tape and clean as soon as possible. The less mess on the surrounding area the better.
Good luck and enjoy,
Robert Gainer
02-09-2007 11:06 AM
1970Columbia34 To clean up the mess of the 5200 do you suggest to tape each side to protect the paint of clean it with a chemical, if a chemical what works and do I clean it up right away our let it set a bit thanks.
02-08-2007 09:44 PM
1970Columbia34 no we have to epoxy 2 together to make it, we use epoxy to do that. no steam needed they will bend fine.
02-08-2007 08:43 PM
teak rail

I'm very interested in your teak project. Mine's a 42' Vagabond ketch with missing teak bow toe rails ( Hurrincane Wilma). You can buy 1 1/2" thick teak floor rails? What length do they come in? Are you steam bending them to match the curve? very interested. thanks! chuck
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