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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Islander 36 electric inboard? diy
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Thread: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-28-2013 04:47 PM
christian.hess
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sony2000 View Post
Christian under 6 kilowatt isn't good for you.
An Atomic is a lot of work. You would be working, to change 4 quarters for a dollar.
Pull the Palmer and try to fix it at home, even run it on a test bed. Little parts can be mailed to you.
Usually 9.9 hp outboards can be 15 hp with only a larger jet in the carb.
In the meantime:
Your 8 hp may do better with a 3 bladed prop, centered on the transom, lower, and maybe a larger jet.
I see why outboards are taking over the inboard market.
unfortunately the palmer has been recycled and discarded...the big problem with them is the exhaust manifold...once they crack and die you cant get a replacement or fix it for cheap...I already had sourced the copper gasket kit and all other parts needed for the rebuild...$2000 or so...

I found on ebay some very nice solas props for sailboats, high thrust 3 and 4 blade...for most common outboards...if I do go that route this will be a MUST.

thanks sony
10-28-2013 04:43 PM
christian.hess
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

thanks guys, so it was the same boat...I loved the article because it related to my needs, his boat was only 1500lbs or so lighter than my boat, but I have a longer waterline which is a benefit...he also emphasized on it been auxiliary power in terms of HP. which is a great point we seem to ignore...

bernard motissier for example sailed around the world twice on an 8hp or so 1 banger inboard, just to help anchor and whatnot...his boat was 39 feet and displaced over 20k lbs...!!!
10-27-2013 06:27 PM
sony2000
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Google , ''electric sailboat Teal '', and the article is in PDF.
His motor is AC I believe, direct drive, low RPM, and 48 vdc.
Today for the same price, you can get a higher hp.
10-27-2013 05:15 PM
misfits
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
that wouldnt be the guy on the sloop TEAL? WOULD IT? do yo have a lectronic link?

if so this guy sells and uses a 2.2kw motor kit, PLUG AND PLAY this is something Im trying to emulate...

again auxiliary power...not motorsailer
That was the boat Teal. I think he spent 2K for the conversion including a couple of batteries & small solar panel. The system is not plug & play but there was a parts list in the article. There's no link to the article I know of but
I'd be happy to scan it for you if you'd like. Send me an email.
10-27-2013 02:21 PM
sony2000
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Christian under 6 kilowatt isn't good for you.
An Atomic is a lot of work. You would be working, to change 4 quarters for a dollar.
Pull the Palmer and try to fix it at home, even run it on a test bed. Little parts can be mailed to you.
Usually 9.9 hp outboards can be 15 hp with only a larger jet in the carb.
In the meantime:
Your 8 hp may do better with a 3 bladed prop, centered on the transom, lower, and maybe a larger jet.
I see why outboards are taking over the inboard market.
10-27-2013 04:42 AM
Stumble
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Christian,

I wasn't aware that you had a gas engine already (I made my money on the hull and rigging, not engines ). I think Greenstar was pretty reasonable about his proposal, though I am a little hesitant about his battery usage profile. It isn't that I am opposed to swapping to electric, just that most people don't have reasonable expectations about what electric can provide.

Further I have questions about how they can make the assumption that a 5.8kw continuious engine has the same rated output as a 18hp diesel. HP (or KW) is the same no matter what the source.

Finally, adding a generator... It is certainly doable, but using a gass generator is going to be somewhat cumbersome. Most marine generators are diesel, and the couple of portable generators (like the Honda 2000) that are gass, really are not suitable for permanent installation. I have seen it done, but still question the real risk of fire and explosions from this type of installation.

Frankly it comes down to what you are trying to achieve. If as you mentioned before you need a few hours of run time each way then I highly doubt it as a suitable option. If you are ok with just a few minutes then it is certainly workable.
10-25-2013 06:01 PM
christian.hess
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Christian,


The reality is that diesel fuel is roughly 100 times more energy dense than lead acid batteries, and about 50 times as energy dense as the best (read most expensive) batteries available. So every pound of diesel fuel you replace has to be made up with by 100lbs of batteries.
I know this stumble and I appreciate your input...this is not the root question or theme here...

I do not have the option here in el salvador of going to yanmar or perkins or whatever and asking for a 10k diesel plus installation inboard. i WOULDNT want or need to either...

NOT to mention I dont have diesel compatible tanks, PROP etc...

I also would like to point out that about 75% of islander 36´came with either an atomic 4 gas engine or a palmer p60 gas engine...one rated at 30hp which we all know never happened and the p60 at 22hp! Only very few islanders cam with a 4 107 and I beleive a pathfinder diesel.

and lastly I would like to point out again that cruising speed is not max speed, you never ever ever use a huge diesel at mAx rpm...so even though your mighty westerbeke pumps out 10hp at idle (im guessing around 800rpm at the prop by the time you lose efficiency) cruising speed for you Im guessing again is around 1800-2200...rpms...so your mighty diesel is still at midrange power...meaning a solid 18hp or so...

again my goal is in and out harbor, to help anchor if needed or fight a small current to ge back to the mooring ball...

I have access to a nice portable generator, and I dont see what the inconvenience of that is at all...its a life saver on a cruising boat!!!!! namely to power tools and fix stuff.

again thanks for the feedback
10-25-2013 05:48 PM
christian.hess
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sony2000 View Post
Christian, were you are and with what you have at hand, the only power source you could add to the Islander, is an outboard on the transom.
well thats what the previous owners started doing cause the old palmer was acting up...its big so I might have to do this fr the meantime while I either save up for a diy electric kit or get to a place where and atomic 4 is available

there is an off center retractable mount...for an outboard...we tried with an 8 yamaha 2 stroke and it was bareley enough againt full ebb...

issue as always with an outboard mount was cavitation and not enough depth...I have been looking at ways to lower the mount more...but the hardest issue is finding a USED long shaft 15hp or so outboard jejeje

thanks
10-25-2013 05:44 PM
christian.hess
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I saved that GOB issue & just dug it out, May/June 2011
that wouldnt be the guy on the sloop TEAL? WOULD IT? do yo have a lectronic link?

if so this guy sells and uses a 2.2kw motor kit, PLUG AND PLAY this is something Im trying to emulate...

again auxiliary power...not motorsailer
10-25-2013 05:42 AM
GreenStar
Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Hi Miatapaul,

In a way you are right that about 800 Ah@12 V takes a Islander 36 only 40 minutes at full speed. If you use your engine that much you probably belong to those who should go for a diesel solution.
Our previous stock of customers don't use their motors that way. What they usually need is enough power to get out of the harbor and start sailing, something to get them out of dangerous situations and last but not least something to get them home when there is no wind.
The first one is easy. It usually takes about 10 minutes at various speeds to get out of the harbor and start sailing. The energy used can easily be regenerated while sailing. With our system and a boat speed of about 5 knots this will take about 45 minutes.
The second one is also easy because those situations usually last from a few seconds up to maybe 10 minutes.
Finally the third one, which is also easy. If weather is absolutely calm then you don't need much energy to drive the boat in 3 ˝ knots. For everyday use and the Islander this will work for about 5 hours. Now weather is seldom absolutely calm which mean that you have at least a little bit of wind to sail on. Start the motor at low speed and you will gain a few knots at the same time as energy consumption is very low. I would guess that you in 1 knot of wind would have a boat speed of at least 3 ˝ knots and enough energy for at least 15 hours and still have the emergency half of the batteries left…

Worth mentioning is that the Islander 36 is a quite heavy boat where quite a lot of energy is needed to get it moving. A more easily driven boat will get much better performance on the same amount of energy.

The other half of your reply is about money.
In Sweden we are talking about the same money to go from diesel to diesel as when going from diesel to electric. If you start from scratch with an empty hull then going electric is cheaper.
What you mustn't forget is costs for maintenance. In the diesel world you have costs for filters, lubricants, winter conservation and so on. These costs does not exist in the GreenStar world. Therefor I usually say that you should put the cost for batteries in in this maintenance account. Our GS12-100 batteries usually last for about 8 years in a sailboat. In the Islander example you should then put the cost of one battery each year on maintenance account. Compare this to the maintenance cost of the diesel and don't forget to include household and start batteries… Left to compare after this is the cost of bought liters (or gallons) of diesel and bought kWh of electricity...
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