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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-26-2013 05:25 PM
smurphny
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

I mostly use a little Garmin 376C which I absolutely love. It uses very little energy and is as dependable as hell. But it has a small screen. Also have a Toughbook with C-Maps that ties down right under the dodger. It has a large, daylight capable screen but the thing is a real energy hog so I rarely use it. When the choice is to run the computer or keep the beer cold, well.... An ideal device would be something with the electronics below decks somewhere and a nice sized waterproof touchscreen that could be mounted flat against the cabin side. I cut a square hole through the cabin to mount the radar screen which has worked out really nice. It's now out of the way so it can't snag anything. Having a larger, flush mounted plotter display right next to the radar screen would be ideal. One priority is to eliminate anything that can snag lines. I can always imagine an errant sheet ripping off those pedestal-mounted control heads.

Good point about the night vision with a large screen. Even my little screen in night mode, dimmed down projects a LOT of light.
10-26-2013 03:48 PM
TakeFive
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
...One option that does not seem to be available on plotters (at least those available to us mortals) is the ability to attach a large, remote touchscreen. It would be nice to be able to clearly see more of the big picture without having to constantly zoom in and out on a 5-10" micro-screen.
Don't forget that PC based chartplotter software can often run two instances in side-by-side windows. You can zoom one window in for local details, and keep the other window zoomed out for big picture display with far-off AIS/radar target. I do this routinely on my computer, so I can monitor both without having to manipulate the zoom level.
10-26-2013 03:18 PM
JonEisberg
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
A few years ago I was docked next to a Canadian flagged boat that had a large lcd or led screen mounted in the cabin bulkhead to display charts. Should have asked the guy more about it. I don't believe it was a touchscreen. It may not have been waterproof but it was surely much larger, probably 20" or so, than most common plotters. One option that does not seem to be available on plotters (at least those available to us mortals) is the ability to attach a large, remote touchscreen. It would be nice to be able to clearly see more of the big picture without having to constantly zoom in and out on a 5-10" micro-screen.
I've run boats with overlarge displays, they're very nice... Just make sure you have a large enough towel or blanket aboard to drape over them at night, if you want to be able to see anything outside of the boat... :-)

The late Mike Harker had such an arrangement on his Hunter 49 WANDERLUST... I imagine keeping it on all the time definitely required some amps...

I had the pleasure of meeting Mike in Miami years ago, an extraordinary guy... To the best of my knowledge, he never carried any paper charts aboard WANDERLUST...


10-26-2013 01:09 PM
smurphny
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

A few years ago I was docked next to a Canadian flagged boat that had a large lcd or led screen mounted in the cabin bulkhead to display charts. Should have asked the guy more about it. I don't believe it was a touchscreen. It may not have been waterproof but it was surely much larger, probably 20" or so, than most common plotters. One option that does not seem to be available on plotters (at least those available to us mortals) is the ability to attach a large, remote touchscreen. It would be nice to be able to clearly see more of the big picture without having to constantly zoom in and out on a 5-10" micro-screen.
10-26-2013 10:11 AM
JonEisberg
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
Being connected to our local photography school, that's total nonsense, Jon. A few pro's hung up their commercial gear as digital tech changed the industry, but most seized the opportunity.

Those successful pros today that lecture on their craft(I attend as many as I can), all started and made a living on film.

Similarly, most everyone I know today that navigates on digital charts, started piloting on paper. New tech is not the enemy. If you go up on the rocks with paper or digital, it's still your mistake.
Oh, I'll freely admit, I was extremely lax in making the switch to digital... I could afford to be at the time, as I was being paid quite handsomely by the world's 2nd-largest tobacco company to keep shooting film, which they and their ad agency still preferred... So, perhaps the 'process' is no different for others, but it certainly is, for me... Make no mistake, I have come to 'embrace' digital for its many advantages (just as I have come to embrace electronic navigation), but for me, at least, it still remains a very different mode of photography in certain respects, and there is a lot about shooting film that I will always miss...

But as one who has always derived a significant portion of income from stock photography, there is no denying it continues to become less and less lucrative, as the competition from vast numbers of some very talented and well-traveled 'amateurs' continues to increase... Seems that one of the ways long-time pros are making money these days, is through teaching, and workshops like the one up in Rockport, and several of my old colleagues are now involved in some aspect of photography that involves surprisingly little actual use of a camera...

Same thing is happening in the delivery business, as well... One of the most striking changes I've seen in recent years, is the increasing percentage of inquiries I'm getting for 'instruction', or 'sail training deliveries', as opposed to simply moving a boat from Point A to B...

Now, THAT change is gonna be a tough one to adapt to, for sure... (grin)
10-26-2013 09:24 AM
TomMaine
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Hell, Tom - I still am... :-)





Today, pretty much anyone with a pulse can produce very high quality photographic images, even in challenging light situations, without any real understanding of exposure, or the other 'traditional' aspects of photography... Nothing wrong with that, of course, aside that it has made photography a far more difficult profession for those of us who have made a living from photography...

Just as e-charts, bow thrusters, and 'Sea Schools' have injected a whole new class of 'competition' into the yacht delivery business, for example... (grin)
Being connected to our local photography school, that's total nonsense, Jon. A few pro's hung up their commercial gear as digital tech changed the industry, but most seized the opportunity.

Those successful pros today that lecture on their craft(I attend as many as I can), all started and made a living on film.

Similarly, most everyone I know today that navigates on digital charts, started piloting on paper. New tech is not the enemy. If you go up on the rocks with paper or digital, it's still your mistake.
10-26-2013 08:44 AM
JonEisberg
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I tend to agree with you there, Jon. I don't want to siderail this discussion too much, but if he had to come into that channel with only paper, would he have still done it? I think not.

Brian
No freakin' way would he have attempted that entry, without the ability to watch his boat's icon move across a plotter screen...

Pure speculation on my part, of course, but I've always thought the RULE 62 tragedy was a classic example of one of the major downsides of relying purely on e-charts, namely the difficulty of seeing the bigger picture at a glance... If he had been looking at a larger chart of the NE Providence Channel spread out before him at a nav station, I think it's far more likely his far superior options of making for safe havens such as Hole in the Wall, or Spanish Wells would have become apparent to him...

My favorite example of this came on a delivery about 15 years ago, running a 53' motoryacht south one fall, during the height of the snowbird migration.

I'd stopped in Ocracoke, when I learned that the CG had completely closed the entrance to the Neuse River to all traffic. A small tug and barge had sunk in the area, but they weren't sure precisely where, so they simply closed everything off until they located it. So, I sat in Ocracoke for a day waiting, but when the closure continued into a 3rd day with no end in sight, folks started getting impatient... Dozens of boats were backed up in Hobucken, and many more waiting in Belhaven, and scattered in various anchorages... Some serious weather was brewing, and it was becoming imperative for the fleet to get moving, and get out of the Sounds and into the more protected waters south of Morehead City...

Unfortunately, heading out Ocracoke Inlet wasn't an option for me, this was a boat you'd only run outside in ideal conditions, and Ocracoke was very dicey back then, anyway... So, I'm sitting with the large chart of Western Pamlico Sound spread out in front of me, looking at possible anchorages closer to the Neuse Entrance, so I could stage to become first in line in the event that the CG would eventually convoy the herd through a point of known safety (I must say, the management of this whole affair by the Captain of the Port in Wilmington, and the CG, was among the most stupidly mismanaged I've ever seen)





So, I'm perusing this chart, when I notice right at the very bottom - just above the notation "Soundings in Feet" - a fine line denoting the "Old Canal" running between the southern ends of West Bay, and Turnagain Bay... The water is pretty skinny down there, and the depth of the canal was indicated as 4', right about the draft of the boat I was running... Definitely worth a shot, since utilizing that canal would allow me to make an end-around of the Neuse Entrance, and re-enter the ICW beyond the closed area...

The point of this, of course, is the strong probability that I never would have noticed this option by continuously scrolling and zooming on a smaller plotter or laptop screen... Might have been possible, but certainly not bloody likely...

Anyway, I made it thru... churned up plenty of mud, but no harm done, and I leapfrogged a cluster of boats that had grown to over a hundred by the time the CG organized a convoy more than a day later... Turned out to be one of the best trips I've ever had down the Ditch. A good NE blow had developed by that time offshore, so I had to run inside all the way to St Augustine... But I literally had the ICW to myself pretty much the entire way, other than slower boats I started catching up with, and a few fast sportfishermen that began catching me around Charleston, just a fantastic trip down my Own Private Waterway, at the very height of the season...
10-26-2013 08:41 AM
JonEisberg
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMaine View Post
I found the same thing with a macbook. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but looking at the chargers;

macbook input @ 115 volts = 1.5 amp
Ipad2 input @ 115 volts = .15 amp

Then you can take the ipad further using a 12v charger, no converter. It charges at half the amperage.

Where as the macbook was a charging issue on my boat, the ipad is a non issue. For you with refrigeration, it's an undetectable usage.

Nice photo! When I first met you on the web, you were railing against digital cameras and the demise of film. (grin)
Hell, Tom - I still am... :-)

I'm pretty sure that one was originally shot on film, that summer's cruise was the last year I was still shooting film...

The comparison is certainly apt, however - I find the distinction between using paper and e-charts to be very much the same as that between shooting film and digital, the whole process is entirely different, for me...

Using film is a much more 'deliberate' endeavor, of course - you had to get it right in the camera to begin with, after all... That required an understanding of the nature of light and exposure, and how the film reacted to that... There were no 'do-overs', or until fairly late in my career, no 'saving' of blown images thru digital manipulation...

Today, pretty much anyone with a pulse can produce very high quality photographic images, even in challenging light situations, without any real understanding of exposure, or the other 'traditional' aspects of photography... Nothing wrong with that, of course, aside that it has made photography a far more difficult profession for those of us who have made a living from photography...

Just as e-charts, bow thrusters, and 'Sea Schools' have injected a whole new class of 'competition' into the yacht delivery business, for example... (grin)
10-26-2013 07:32 AM
Minnewaska
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

I find booklet charts to be fairly hard to use, if you're traveling any distance. I have no beef with them being an adequate, although not ideal, backup.

As a side note, many use ink jet printers at home. As all that do would know, the ink will smear when wet. It seems quite less than ideal to use ink jets to print marine charts, unless they are going to be laminated.
10-26-2013 12:03 AM
TakeFive
Re: NOAA To Stop Printing Nautical Charts

What do you guys think of NOAA's BookletCharts as paper backups? I print them out every spring and file them away on the boat in case I need them. I don't go offshore, so the smaller format isn't a problem for me.

Have any of you tried them?
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