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"Free boat" seaworthiness

25K views 250 replies 36 participants last post by  captain jack 
#1 ·
hi folks. I have a big question but first, some background. I've been sailing for 17 years. I taught myself to sail on a 9' dinghy and I still sail her the most. she's convenient and fun. anyhow, I also own a holiday 20. it's a rock stable boat, when compared to my dinghy, and I've never even come close to worrying about a capsize. although, I must be honest, I've faced a lot worse situations in that dinghy than the 20. really crazy stuff, especially since I can't swim. lol.

now, the question. I am about to get a j24 for free. yep. free. it's in good functional shape. brand new sails. only needs a bit of trim work, really. the only thing is it's covered in mud and it doesn't come with a trailer. I have to move it immediately, if i'm to get it, so I have to see if I can find an affordable marina. I don't know what else to do. anyhow, my question:

when I first found out about this boat, I didn't know what it was. the guy only told me it was a keel boat and "24' Chesapeake". now, I thought he might have been telling me a model. cheapeake. searched the web over. found two possibilities. anyhow, at that size and full keel I figured light cruiser. found out tonight it's a j24 and got a pic of it. I will put the pic on here for shock value. lol.

anyhow, i'd like to use the boat for day sailing and light cruising; weekends or over night. everyone knows what a j24 is but I've never sailed one. so, I was searching the web and I found some disturbing stuff. I read a lot about them being prone to capsize and sinking. I've also heard that they have a bit of lee helm. I figured a keel boat would be more stable than my holidays 20, which is a center boarder.

I intend to sail her from back river, in the Chesapeake bay. I was wondering if I could get input from any who have sailed them about their sailing qualities. obviously, i'm looking for something stable for cruiser type use. I don't care about racing. I just love to sail.

so, are they that unseaworthy? are there any suggestions to make one more seaworthy? I don't mind some moderate modifications but I have a shoestring budget. that has to be kept in mind.

if I can get a place to keep her, I am going to take her. free boats don't happen every day...at least not to me. but, if she won't suit my purpose, i'll fix her up and try to sell her to afford a boat that does. too bad it couldn't be a nordica20, halman20, or flicka. that would have been perfect. but never look a gift horse in the mouth.

thanks in advance.
 
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#87 ·
Regarding costs, I forget where you said you are, but if you're anywhere near Elk Neck, try Hance's Point Yacht Club. It's a DIY marina. I was there when I looked at boats 2 years ago, and I liked it. It is inexpensive, and in a nice location, and according to the guy selling his boat, it was what he would miss most about owning a boat (not that he didn't love his S2). From what I remember the prices were VERY reasonable. Hances Point Yacht Club - HPYC Main Page
 
#92 ·
there is obviously a lot to learn about marinas. I am used to trailering. this is a new world, for me.

it's kind of like the idea of joining a yacht club. I am the least likely person you would see in a yacht club. think biker/pirate/Viking. lol.

I guess I've never been a social sailor. I mean, I talk to people, when i'm getting my boats set up or ready to leave. you'll exchange a few words as you sail by. i will lend a hand, while they are at the dock. I have saved a few people's butts. i actually sailed beside one family while i told them how to sail. that's a funny story. but I've never hung out with the sailing community.

so, except for people that know me from sailing at Marburg ( and their just people i am acquainted with, not really fiends i hang out with), i don't have any sailing friends.

guess i need to work on that a little.
 
#95 ·
there is obviously a lot to learn about marinas. I am used to trailering. this is a new world, for me.

it's kind of like the idea of joining a yacht club. I am the least likely person you would see in a yacht club. think biker/pirate/Viking. lol.

I guess I've never been a social sailor. I mean, I talk to people, when i'm getting my boats set up or ready to leave. you'll exchange a few words as you sail by. i will lend a hand, while they are at the dock. I have saved a few people's butts. i actually sailed beside one family while i told them how to sail. that's a funny story. but I've never hung out with the sailing community.

so, except for people that know me from sailing at Marburg ( and their just people i am acquainted with, not really fiends i hang out with), i don't have any sailing friends.

guess i need to work on that a little.
YCs are not anything like you may be thinking. Unless you are into the Big ones like Annapolis YC. all the clubs on the river here are pretty down to earth. No ascots and caps LOL
 
#93 · (Edited)
he actually did send me the HIN : "Here is only number MDZ44432B075 model is listed as fiberglass. It was built by a local builder who only built 5-10 it is referred to as a Chesapeake in an article.

Hope that is what you need."

so, there it is. now to look it up. why did that take so bloody long?

so it's a 75. waiting for the site to open up to check the MIC ( key mouse lol).
MDZ is Maryland homemade boats
and i can't find anything with that info....
 
#96 ·
no. already beat my head against the wall looking for Chesapeake boats on that site.

the chesapeake 20 is a centerboard day sailor ad too short. this boat is a 24' keel boat.
there is a Chesapeake 30 which is 24' LWL. it's a keel boat but it has a motor. this boat has an outboard bolted to the stern. the Chesapeake 30 is the same as the seidelmann 30. there is a seidelmann 25 but it's not related to the Chesapeake name. also, i looked that stuff up before i had a picture. now that i have seen the picture, it looks nothing like any of those boats.
 
#100 ·
The old Free, Sunken, Undocumented, Broken boat trick.

View attachment 16154
that is seriously funny. he fact that you posted that and i got it ages the both of us. lol. agent 99 was so hot. i had the biggest crush on her when i was a boy. lol
 
#111 ·
I took my boat from Rock Hall to Barnegat Bay. I haven't done a Philly to Hance's Point trip, but Take Five, Ulladh, and others have made essentially the same trip. Basically, you'd be going from the Philly area down to Delaware City. Sleep there, then in the morning catch the current across the canal and out into the bay. I actually wonder if it couldn't be done in one day if you're able to time things well, but best to plan on 2.
 
#115 ·
sounds like bringing her back is going to be a 4 person job. one to drive me up. one to accompany that person back. it's a long drive. i can't ask a friend to do it alone. lol. and one who either knows powerboats ( motor experience ) or knows the way, to go with me. i do know someone that does powerboats and he is a very good friend....

but i'm getting ahead of myself. i need to contact that marina at Hance's point, and go see the boat before i start planning bringing her back. of course, thinking ahead never hurt.
 
#112 ·
i am going to say i think it's a seafarer 26. they made them in 77. it's the right size and it looks right. the 31 has too many portholes.
 
#113 ·
Dude, check out the "Swan", forget the other boat. Even if you could restore her, she'd never look as pretty as "Swan". Look at those lines. Bigger boats are more expensive to maintain/restore/dock - and some are more worthwhile that others, it is very difficult to tell from a photo - but for $100-$200, wow.

What would be even better is to ask somebody with more big keelboat experience (perhaps from the club? sailors always like giving advice :))to come and look at her with you; the cost to restore is generally pretty easy to estimate, the big ticket items (in a sound boat) are engine, sails and standing rigging. Most anything else is less expensive, but a lot of sweat equity. But things do add up...but if she is sound, she's probably worth it.
 
#116 ·
Can you take the train to 30th street (Philly), then a cab? Heck, I think the Market-Frankfurt line gets you kind of close, so a cab from one of those stops might work, too. Overnight on the boat, sail it home the next day. Another option is a U-Haul. Rent the smallest truck they'll let you take one way. Still another option is to go with Enterprise or Budget. Both do one-way rentals, but they typically only do pick-up and drop-off at airports for those. Still worth looking into; Denise's club isn't THAT far from the airport.

Can you tell I went through similar preparations not that long ago? ;)

Can you tell I think that if you're going to go down one of these paths, the Philly boat is the better path to go down? :)
 
#122 ·
This isn't a personal finance discussion board but Capt. Jack needs to get his act together before he thinks about acquiring a 24' boat. Unless you make your living on the water, boats are luxuries. You need to take care of basics before you spend on luxuries. One of those basics is a rainy day reserve. He stated that he doesn't have any reserve funds. It's absolutely reckless to start thinking about buying a boat until you have six months living expenses sitting in the bank.
 
#123 · (Edited)
This boat, just doesn't seem to be 31ft Anyway, I'm not in Philly I'm in Bristol 15 miles north. The train from Philly is the Septa R-7 line, it comes right here a few blocks from my house.
This is what I know so far.

It's been about 3 years in the club. I think it was sitting in someone's yard for 20, (don't know) It's been on a club mooring 3 seasons.. he's never sailed it. The only time I saw the boat move on it's own was for launching and end of season pull out. It's gas, not an A4, something about the carb leaking gas. A very young man owns it, but is not a member of the club anymore so... the boat...HAS TO GO :) I've never seen inside... The outboard is high and I think the whole propulsion approach needs to be re-thunk :)

People have towed boats down river to the Chessy but that's really slow going.
I've done the trip a few times.. don't even need a chart lol Chesapeake city is my fav stop,free too!

View from above;
 
#126 ·
so, i have a two questions. it does have sails, right? figure i'd better ask that. sails that big would not be cheap.

hard to believe you'd have a nice boat, like that, and never sail it. i keep my dinghy in the back of my truck so i can sail any time i am near water, and have a spare hour or two. i can't imagine letting such a beautiful boat just sit. even if you are short of money, wind is free.

second question. you say he uses the outboard because of a carb leak on the inboard? if so, that's no biggie. i can rebuild a carburetor in my sleep. that would be good because it would mean i'd only have to use an outboard to get it home. not that i intend to use an engine anymore than i actually have to.
 
#128 ·
The Dream is alive.

“To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea… ‘cruising’ it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.” -Sterling Hayden
 
#130 ·
The Dream is alive.

"To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea… 'cruising' it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about." -Sterling Hayden
awesome quote!
 
#129 ·
Something doesn't seem right. That Seafarer (Swan) looks too good to be true. $100-200 purchase price? Outwardly, as far as one can see that boat looks to be in pretty good shape. It might be a good idea to verify the price and that you can get a good clear title to that boat. Talk with the owner. Talk with someone with experience in that size boat and get them to look at it with you. They'll have a better feel for what's needed, if anything, and what it realistically will cost. Why hasn't someone already bought it?

Jack, make sure that you look at your situation financially to make sure that you can handle it. Haulout, bottom paint, wax hull for my 32 foot boat runs about $1,600 every two years. Insurance is $580 a year. Slip fees run $2,000 to $4,000+ depending on where you are. To get insurance may require a survey. Surveys run $3-400?. If the survey finds problems (and they will on a boat of that age), they'll have to be fixed before insurance company will cover it....i.e. more expense. Can you even get insurance? Even liability insurance?...some marinas require it. What needs to be spent on fixing up to a usable condition? Once you buy it, it's yours. If you can't handle the associated bills for any reason, you are going to accumulate an outstanding debt and there's a good chance that someone is going to take you to court and get a judgment against you. Then, until you take care of that, you'll have trouble getting financing on anything down the road until it's cleared up. Meanwhile, you've got two boats to deal with on top of everything else that life throws in your direction.

I know you want a bigger boat, and this one is surely tempting. But you already have a boat that you can't deal with. And no financial reserve. Even $350 is problematic at the moment.
 
#131 ·
Something doesn't seem right. That Seafarer (Swan) looks too good to be true. $100-200 purchase price? Outwardly, as far as one can see that boat looks to be in pretty good shape. It might be a good idea to verify the price and that you can get a good clear title to that boat. Talk with the owner. Talk with someone with experience in that size boat and get them to look at it with you. They'll have a better feel for what's needed, if anything, and what it realistically will cost. Why hasn't someone already bought it?

Jack, make sure that you look at your situation financially to make sure that you can handle it. Haulout, bottom paint, wax hull for my 32 foot boat runs about $1,600 every two years. Insurance is $580 a year. Slip fees run $2,000 to $4,000+ depending on where you are. To get insurance may require a survey. Surveys run $3-400?. If the survey finds problems (and they will on a boat of that age), they'll have to be fixed before insurance company will cover it....i.e. more expense. Can you even get insurance? Even liability insurance?...some marinas require it. What needs to be spent on fixing up to a usable condition? Once you buy it, it's yours. If you can't handle the associated bills for any reason, you are going to accumulate an outstanding debt and there's a good chance that someone is going to take you to court and get a judgment against you. Then, until you take care of that, you'll have trouble getting financing on anything down the road until it's cleared up. Meanwhile, you've got two boats to deal with on top of everything else that life throws in your direction.

I know you want a bigger boat, and this one is surely tempting. But you already have a boat that you can't deal with. And no financial reserve. Even $350 is problematic at the moment.
NCC you need to read the whole thread. :mad:
The boat is not in good shape imo.
The owner and the club have parted ways, owner is gone, boat remains. I don't know what kind of deal Jack can get but the there IS NOT ANY Deception going on. The boat has to go. Club is owned money. that is all I know at this time! :mad:

Jack and I are communicating by pm and phone. If jack can afford boat = his business, If jack can save the boat and find a home for it. = his biz again. Deal he strikes with owner or club = his business.
 
#134 ·
Denise,

I didn't mean to imply that there was any deception. Just the opposite. Jack started with wanting to save another boat that had been underwater. You knew of something that might fit that was far, far better, even if it still needs lots of work. In my view, you have been especially helpful to him in his quest and straight forward in telling him what you know. And it is Jack's business if he wants to proceed.
 
#140 ·
I'd say those were old pics pre-sinking.. and scary enough at that point!
 
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#148 ·
yeah. the boat looks much worse, now. it still had the hatches in those pictures. I suppose this guy really screwed it up worse than it was. he did find the title, by the way.
 
#142 ·
It's back up on evilbay! What's up with the deck? Does it have teak decking in spots, or did they try an simulate a wooden deck in fiberglass? My guess is the picture are from before it sank also... Can you tell my boats are put away for the season?
 
#145 ·
I just noticed the ebay ad has a link for "more pictures." My throat starts to burn just looking at them. And based on the fact that the hatch is magically restored, I'd say these pics were probably BEFORE the boat (apparently) sunk:







 
#180 ·
I just noticed the ebay ad has a link for "more pictures." My throat starts to burn just looking at them. And based on the fact that the hatch is magically restored, I'd say these pics were probably BEFORE the boat (apparently) sunk:

[images removed.......]
TF.... thanks for posting , but is there any chance you could resize these, they're blowing my screen out? Many thanks.
 
#146 ·
I always loved the English gentleman John Steed wooooo..

ANYWAY! Boat is sold, according to the owner, and yes it is a Seafarer 31... 500 bucks it went for.... but it is still sitting at the club So... we will see...
 
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