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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Winged Keels Pros & Cons
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-09-2002 05:51 PM
tsenator
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

Sketch,

You said " THE BIGGEST FOR ME, the tendency for the anchor rode to get hooked on the wing!"

One of the greatest devices for alleviating this is the use of a Sentinel Or Kellet. Not only does this keep the rode from potentially wrapping around the keel. But it also allows you to reduce scope somewhat.

Here is more detail http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/anchor.htm


Do a search on the Sailnet site for "sentinel" and it find a few more articles for you
04-09-2002 05:11 PM
sketchandjane
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

Hi Old Glory...my first posting ever! r.e. Wing Keels..Currently have a CS-40 w/wing (5.6''draft). Have had her about 6-years and must confess that as I was buying it, the wing was an issue. Because of other factors (boat in great condition, fair price, shoal draft an advantage being on Ches bay, etc.), I went ahead and "did the deed". Basicly, we''ve been very happy..although please note the Chesapeake is mostly soft and/or mud. Positive points: 1) Shoal Draft (relatively), 2) When aground (I do tend to explore a bit), the engine (Volvo 43hp/turbo), either allows me either a) back-off or b) torque swings me around so I can power forward...so far ("knock wood"), I''ve always been able to get off and 3) reasonable performance (although the 6.7'' alternative would abviously point higher). Negative: 1) Tending (painting/fairing, etc.) the bottom of the wing...convincing the yard to leave ''ya overnight before launching helps and 2) THE BIGGEST FOR ME, the tendency for the anchor rode to get hooked on the wing! Please note, that in my prior life (with a C&C35), I was known as "scope boy". With the wing, it took me a couple "adventures" to realize that a "change of habits" was in order. Changes included a) Using 40'' of chain on a big CQR and b) using the "accepted" amount of scope (5-7:1 in benign conditions) intially and increasing as conditions warrant (e.g. sometimes staying up ''till the blow hits, etc.). Please note that I''m extremely conscious of the "anchoring aspect" as we frequently have a lot of "guests" rafting-up and we''re usually the first at anchor (ummm..quick boat or..?). Bottom line: if draft is an issue, the wing is a good alternative...when sailing, let ''er "breath" (e.g. don''t pinch) and enjoy. Cheers...Sketch
04-09-2002 11:13 AM
Don Foley
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

Being a typical distracted sailor I wander into the occasional mud bank or sand bar, and have done so with both full keels and winged bulbs. Unlike Jeff I offer no professional experience, just these basic notes:

1) I''m happy with my shoal draft bulb keel, as I tend ground myself a lot less.

2) I''ve found when I do ground myself, I look at the compass first and make sure I don''t twist myself in. If the sails are up, this is easy to do. If I back off exactly opposite the direction I hit, I find getting off the bar/bank no problem. I''m beginning to think the shape of the bulb and wings keep me from going too far into the bank/bar and getting myself in too deep...ONLY if I act fast to get out.

3) I''ve experienced no loss of performance from the winged bulb. She points just fine.

Good luck,
Don
04-09-2002 08:58 AM
rolliges
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

I found this page looking specifically for Spitfire shaped keels. I haven''t sailed for years but I do surf and enjoy experimental surf design. Back in the late 80''s surfer Cheyne Horan teamed up with Ben Lexan to design a surfing winged keel. It has Spitfire shaped wings. Check them out at: http://www.cheynehoran.com.au

This is not an endorsement or advertisement.
-Robert
03-10-2002 05:38 AM
Jeff_H
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

I really doubt that adding unballasted wings would be worth the effort. Wings are very tricky to design. If they are going to really work they will also add drag and if not really well optomized this drag will quickly offset any real advantage of adding the wings. The reason that wings have been popularized is that in the normal forms that we see in production boats they are really a very specialized form of a bulb keel and the combination of an end plate and added ballast somewhat offsets the loss of efficiency inherent in a shoal draft keel.

If I were to build a set of wings they would have a plan form similar to a British Spitfire but with truncated tips. I would build them out closed cell foam such as a polyisocyanurate foam or a closed cell PVC with an epoxy/glass skin. For attachement I would make up a stainless steel weldment out of a stainless steel tube with a nut welded to the inside end and SS plate fins that would stabilize the foam. I would then drill through the bottom of the keel and using epoxy, glue in a piece of SS ''all thread. I would then turn the wings onto the all-thread and use glass to keep it from rotating. A better more secure way attach the wing would be to have two parrellel tubes that would end at each wing tip and would allow through bolting of the wings. Once thru bolted end to end the pockets would be glassed closed.

All of that said, the first time you run aground you will more than likely damage the wings and have to rebuild. In other words, with all due respect, I think that this is probably a really bad idea.

Respectfully
Jeff
03-10-2002 04:56 AM
sailor80
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

I have an S2 7.3 meter, shoal draft sailboat. I am contemplating attaching a "wing" plate to the aft bottom portion of the keel to increas upwind performance.
I am thinking of glassing this wing onto the bottom. The getting stuck part of this I worry about some, but with a 24'' boat, 3'' draft, I''ll bet I can simply jump into the water and push her off in many situations.

Design factors I am wrestling with:
- chord length
- leading edge angle for shedding debris
- core material
- overall width
- structural design

-regards,
02-01-2002 02:27 AM
Jeff_H
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

Why would any one go to " www.a1line.com " when your obvious total lack of ethics as evidenced by spamming this forum and violating its rules against commercial posting shows that you are a totally untrustworthy person?
01-31-2002 08:42 PM
a1line
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

Please go to the " www.a1line.com ".You will find so many good opportunities for you.
Thanks.
01-24-2002 01:35 AM
halyardz
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

I agree with Jeff & Mitch. I had a wing my small Bene. But stuck her in the mud once. High tide and a tow out, swore I''d never have another wing....bulb maybe.
01-23-2002 05:53 PM
Jeff_H
Winged Keels Pros & Cons

That is extremely flattering coming from someone with your background.

Jeff
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