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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Production Boats and the Limits
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Thread: Production Boats and the Limits Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
42 Minutes Ago 09:51 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Hate to break it to you, Smack, but you, me and many others DO have and DID buy an 'ancient outdated boat'... not a bad boat, necessarily, but certainly not a current "recent design thinking" boat.

FWIW I think many of these outdated boats are better in many ways than the current crop. But they're outdated either way... And while I don't want to put words in Jon's mouth I'm sure he'd say your boat is better than the current H40, for example...despite the wicked rig
The swept-back spreaders conversation came about not only because of the B&R rig on my Hunter, but because of the new Beneteau Oceanis photo I listed above (here's another angle).



So, I'm really referring to these new boats as much as mine.

Hell, even the new Oysters and Swans have swept-back spreaders. Do they suck?





So you guys are trying to tell me that if one wants a "proper boat", NONE of these more modern options are suitable?

Sorry. No soup for you.

You do have to admit, though, that Hunter was definitely ahead of its time with the B&R rig.
54 Minutes Ago 09:39 AM
Shockwave
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianjoub View Post
DDW?
VMG?

Someone help me here please. What are these abbreviations for?
DDW dead down wind
VMG velocity made good.

Really though, since we sail courses that are not generally dead upwind or downwind, like a bouy race we should really say vmc or velocity made to a course.
56 Minutes Ago 09:37 AM
Faster
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianjoub View Post
DDW?
VMG?

Someone help me here please. What are these abbreviations for?

Dead Down Wind (App wind angle 180 deg)

Velocity Made Good. (net ground speed towards destination.)

57 Minutes Ago 09:36 AM
Faster
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
........But for crying out loud, does this mean I'm supposed to buy an ancient, outdated boat......
Hate to break it to you, Smack, but you, me and many others DO have and DID buy an 'ancient outdated boat'... not a bad boat, necessarily, but certainly not a current "recent design thinking" boat.

FWIW I think many of these outdated boats are better in many ways than the current crop. But they're outdated either way... And while I don't want to put words in Jon's mouth I'm sure he'd say your boat is better than the current H40, for example...despite the wicked rig
59 Minutes Ago 09:34 AM
Shockwave
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Smack, with highly swept spreaders the main will catch when reefing, more so then in line spreaders, it's just geomtry. Every design has plusses and minuses, there is no right or wrong, just preferences.

In cruising trim we rate 9, racing trim we're -27, the boat is old school, think design ala 60's.
1 Hour Ago 09:26 AM
ianjoub
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

DDW?
VMG?

Someone help me here please. What are these abbreviations for?
1 Hour Ago 09:19 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Well, I think if you're ever in a situation where you're sailing deep downwind in a blow and big seas, you'll begin to see the downsides of having to contend with such conditions with a constantly over-trimmed main... :-)

So, yeah, other than the potential for increased chafe on the main, and difficulty of reefing it when sailing deep, the sacrifice of the full projection of sail area, the creation of added weather helm and increasing the potential for an accidental jibe when sailing DDW, and the fact that your main might still be be over-trimmed even as the boat wants wants to round up or broach in sporty conditions, there are very few downsides to deeply swept spreaders... :-)
Can you walk me through some situations (based in reality please) where one HAS NO OPTION BUT to sail DDW in big seas?

And how exactly do the spreaders make it difficult to reef the main? I do it all the time - pretty easily. Maybe I'm missing something here.

For a dude who's sailed a million miles, your examples are pretty hair-brained sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Sure, easy to say you'll simply sail higher angles, set an asymetrical, and gybe your way to a destination directly downwind... But in the real world, that sometimes simply isn't a good option, and sailing DDW can often be the preferred - and far "simpler" - way to go...

btw, you'll lose more than a "few" degrees sailing hotter angles with a cruising chute... And, I still don't think your Hunter, loaded for kroozing, is gonna be as fast in terms of VMG as you think it is...
:-))
No, I totally agree that sailing with an asym won't ALWAYS be the best option. But for crying out loud, does this mean I'm supposed to buy an ancient, outdated boat purely to cover this very, very, very, very rare inconvenience? No freakin' way. I think we can manage.

As for the VMG, it's cruising bro. Not a race or a delivery. I'm okay with that. What's the PHRF on your boat again?
1 Hour Ago 08:55 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
If you get out and actually cruise, you might find you won't need so many fenders. Better that storage space be allocated to other water toys and of course some adult beverages.
LOL! I take a different view, actually... If I'm headed off to parts unknown, I want to have as many fenders, docklines, and a long powercord as I can manage because, well, You Never Know... :-)

I want to have sufficient fenders not only for my own boat, but extra for another in the event I'm forced into a situation where someone else might have to raft alongside...

There's always gonna be some place - Marina Hemingway in Havana during a norther is one that comes to mind - where you can't possibly have too many fenders... Or, extension cords, for that matter :-)

The upside is, the excellent Havana Club rum you can buy there is cheaper than most anything you could have filled your lazarette with from elsewhere...

:-)
1 Hour Ago 08:48 AM
killarney_sailor
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Most countries seem to have a limit but we have never seen it enforced. Your alcohol store is taken to be 'ship's stores'. I assume if the customs guy had to walk across cases of booze covering the sole there might be an issue. What you do is stock up on whatever is cheap in a given location because down the street (er, in another country) the tax patterns will be completely different and something else might be cheap, or nothing might be cheap.
1 Hour Ago 08:36 AM
ianjoub
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
If you get out and actually cruise, you might find you won't need so many fenders. Better that storage space be allocated to other water toys and of course some adult beverages.
[Threadjack] On that note, just how much booze can one bring with them before it could be considered smuggling? [/threadjack]
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