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  Topic Review (Newest First)
23 Minutes Ago 01:22 AM
RTB
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I'm also an old Stuffers member, one of those who were banned due to Sully's apparent brain explosion. That saw what, 20 or 30 people banned in a matter of days ? If I'm correct there have been two contributing members banned from SN this year. Those are hardly Stuffers numbers and nor does it suggest a CF level of moderating.
One or two bannings (I don't know who the other was) is a start. So, point blank, I'll ask if you believe the smack ban was necessary? Yes or no? Is it good for sailnet? If so, what is your reasoning? I'll leave it at that.

Ralph
39 Minutes Ago 01:06 AM
tdw
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
So, yeah. I got that. You know, I'm an old stuffiminto member. I've always felt like an outsider here (who would have thunk?) But... I thought you guys might have a more level head than Sully. This smack ban reeks. I'm sorry, but just don't understand where that came from. YOU read the iPad thread and tell me where Steve went wrong....enough to get banned. Ok?

Ralph
I'm also an old Stuffers member, one of those who were banned due to Sully's apparent brain explosion. That saw what, 20 or 30 people banned in a matter of days ? If I'm correct there have been two contributing members banned from SN this year. Those are hardly Stuffers numbers and nor does it suggest a CF level of moderating.
49 Minutes Ago 12:56 AM
RTB
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
My arse does not need covering, nor am I on the fence, which if paling then my arse may need some padding.

Simply put .... in maintaining that Donna was telling the truth it might have appeared that I was implying Steve (SmackDaddy) was not. I was not suggesting any such thing.
So, yeah. I got that. You know, I'm an old stuffiminto member. I've always felt like an outsider here (who would have thunk?) But... I thought you guys might have a more level head than Sully. This smack ban reeks. I'm sorry, but just don't understand where that came from. YOU read the iPad thread and tell me where Steve went wrong....enough to get banned permanently. Ok?

Ralph
1 Hour Ago 12:36 AM
tdw
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
Are you on the fence....or just CYA (cover your ass)?
My arse does not need covering, nor am I on the fence, which if paling then my arse may need some padding.

Simply put .... in maintaining that Donna was telling the truth it might have appeared that I was implying Steve (SmackDaddy) was not. I was not suggesting any such thing.
2 Hours Ago 11:43 PM
RTB
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Just as an add on to my previous post, in saying that Donna was telling the absolute truth I am not suggesting that Smack was not and no that is not a contradiction.
Are you on the fence....or just CYA (cover your ass)?

Since you re-opened the subject....

I was following the iPad "discussion" because I was interested in how it may be better than me running my laptop with Offshore Navigator. I had some questions regarding iPads but never got the chance to ask them, since smack was the one that seemed to know the answers. Why others with no experience using iNavX on an iPad chose to attack Steve, I can't figure out.

Once things got ugly, Donna posts

" OHFORCRYINGOUTLOUD.

Can't we disagree without the constant snide comments? It's getting OLD and quite frankly I'm fed up with the sniping and potshots and what is trying to pass as humor. "

Well, after re-reading the last 5 pages of the thread I discover that the real name calling, and true insults were from others than smack. Sure he had his comebacks in his own way as usual, only defending himself. If I wanted to navigate with an iPad, I'd listen to smack who just used it for 1000 miles getting to Florida. Not SVAuspisious or chef2sail.

Unless there was some back room discussions between the mods and Steve that didn't go well, a permanent ban was totally uncalled for. Maybe all the members slinging insults should have had a cooling off period to calm things down? It happens. All parties were getting rude. Not just the one you decided to permanently ban from Sailnet.

I'm only here because of a few friends (smack being one), and hate Cruiser's Forum because of moderation. I thought you guys were better than that?

For new members reading threads here, the real challenge is to figure out WHO knows what they are typing about. It's a much smaller number than you may realize. I sure miss the good old days with Knothead, Cam, i2f, and a few others. Honestly, there are few I'd listen to lately.

All the best,
Ralph
2 Hours Ago 11:21 PM
Lazerbrains
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by albrazzi View Post
Best Boat I ever owned and steered in following seas was an old Columbia metric with the hourglass transom. What does that have to do with rudders? somehow it nailed the stern down quite remarkably. Took the strain off the rudder for sure.
Those are really interesting designs with a very unusual hull shape and keel shape. I've sailed on an 8.3 and was very impressed with it on all points of sail and agree - nice sailing boats especially when the wind kicks into gear. I'm amazed there isn't more of a cult following with them.
2 Hours Ago 11:04 PM
outbound
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Al agree it's all aspects of the boat that interact to produce a sweet vessel and hull shape is paramount. No question a boat that sails in the water rather than on the water is a different beast. However compare that boat to a centerboard catboat with a bar door rudder and tell me doesn't each feature contribute to their handling when running in a fresh breeze.
Think you and Lazer are not accounting fully for the multiple other features that are involved. Look at the plans Bob posted on the sliver. One would think she would track like a train on rails downwind at any speed. This is not a function of her rudder even though it's a balanced spade but rather hull shape. One would also think she'll steer wonderfully. That is a function of the rudder in conjunction with hull shape. Look at Dashews sail and motor boats for other examples.
Twitchiest boat I've been on was beamy with flat run aft of the keel. But on the other hand the open derived hulls do beautifully. Again there are good and not so good boats of every style. Can't get around for most sailors spades when done right are easier to steer. Can't get around every time you steer you slow the boat down. Easier to make a spade slow the boat down less.
3 Hours Ago 10:16 PM
tdw
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
There are probably some emails and messages, both in and out, that I was not copied into but based on what I have seen there is no doubt whatsoever that Donna is telling the absolute truth.
Just as an add on to my previous post, in saying that Donna was telling the absolute truth I am not suggesting that Smack was not and no that is not a contradiction.
4 Hours Ago 09:10 PM
albrazzi
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
When running before a sea or surfing big issue is not to broach. Unbalanced stern hung rudders such as seen on many double enders in the past required a great deal of alertness and personal strength in such a sea. Loading can be sudden and severe. Knockdowns and broaches ruin your whole day. Even in my limited experience it is obvious its much easier to steer a balanced spade and that remains the primary function of the d-mn thing.
Inorderto gain mechanical advantage and to prevent the rudder swinging to one side due to effects of a sea it was common to use a worm gear set up on ocean boats with stern hung rudders. You lose all feel but above advantages justified its use.
Even now tillers are in use on rather large sailboats. Bobs Sliver and the K&M 53s come immediately to mind. There is no reason given current materials and design to dismiss tillers out of hand.

Before Monitors, Flemings, Hydrovanes it was common to see stern hung rudders with extensions off top and bottom supporting a steering rudder. Vane turned that small rudder which in turn turned the big rudder. Saw them commonly on Bristol channel Cutters with the vane running up the backstay.
Best Boat I ever owned and steered in following seas was an old Columbia metric with the hourglass transom. What does that have to do with rudders? somehow it nailed the stern down quite remarkably. Took the strain off the rudder for sure.
5 Hours Ago 08:05 PM
Lazerbrains
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
When running before a sea or surfing big issue is not to broach. Unbalanced stern hung rudders such as seen on many double enders in the past required a great deal of alertness and personal strength in such a sea. Loading can be sudden and severe. Knockdowns and broaches ruin your whole day. Even in my limited experience it is obvious its much easier to steer a balanced spade and that remains the primary function of the d-mn thing.
Double enders with stern rudders typically are long/full keeled and will not surf. My experience is the opposite - I have also been in plenty of boats with balanced spades that are horribly twitchy downwind and require far more "alertness" than a long keel would. Typically a long keeled boat is more directionally stable downwind, in my experience, than a fin keeled spade design.

Broaching can ruin your day, but losing your spade rudder and sinking your ship can ruin your life. The loading it receives from following seas is the same.
I like the old wormgear steering, BTW. Reliable as a tiller, not much to go wrong with those. They don't have the feedback of a cable wheel however.
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