Thank you for the info. It's good to have a source besides the non-nautical media. Your friend OK?I have read through this whole thread and in all the finger pointing and blaming weak/scared crews boats not ready for the voyage and all, not one person has gotten the facts right. I love how people are so quick the judge others when they do not have a clue as to the facts. I have listened to these boats everyday on the SSB. I have heard the distress calls as they came in. I have a good friend on one of the boats towed in. So I will summarize.
First boat down a Cartalina 54? catamaran, lost mast, made it back in under their own power. Distress call but refused help just wanted CG aware.
Second boat down Braveheart. Injury broken arm. Distress call but made it in under their own after they found it unsafe for injured crew transfer.
Third boat down Alden 54 ketch, lost rudder, was towed to Chesapeake after drifting for 2 days.
Fourth boat down, Morgen 41 Outisland, Taking on water (beyond what pumps could keep up with), Bulkheads coming apart, severely sick crew. Crew of 4 air lifted to Elizabeth City
Fifth boat down, Hans Christen 38, lost mast, vessel still underway under their own power to Norfolk, No assistance given. Reported in this evening all is well aboard.
Sixth boat down, Catalina 42, lost rudder, waited 3 days for tow should be back in this evening. (I personally spoke with this skipper while at sea and he simply was not equipped for makeshift repairs.)
Seventh boat down Catalina 38, lost steering and engine. tried to make Bermuda but had to give up with no help from private tow (their first choice) They were advised to abandon by USCG because of worsening weather condition and little hope of other help. 3 crew air lifted today to Elizabeth city. (so they tried for 3 days to make a go of it)
Lastly Aurora had a false alarm on their EPIRB, Capt. admitted mistake while checking gear. No assistance needed however a plane was sent to their location before the mistake was found.
So 2 boats had air rescues only 1 with sick crew and they were breaking up. Second air lift at the assistance of CG as there was little hope for anything else.
2 boats towed back due to no steering.
The fleet left knowing a cold front was to pass but it was supposed to pass fast and then good conditions, Instead it stalled and the fleet was stuck in the stream with 20-25. The problems came in the squalls with 30-40 against the stream.
I do not think the skippers did that bad if anything maybe they were not fully prepared to do jury rigs and make emergency repairs.
At least now this thread can have some real facts to work with. For those that belittle those out there claiming they were just seasick you can see now there was more to it. Until you have been there maybe we should not be so quick to judge.
Everyone has a right to an opinion sure. Robust debate and disagreement on here is a great thing, it gives us the chance to think about these issues and have our opinions challenged. Ultimately though I will listen and give more weight to those that do have the experience over the day sailor in threads like this.I don't understand the dismissive nature of some of the posts on this thread. It appears people aren't allowed to comment or discuss unless they meet certain metrics gained by experience. Who decides what these metrics are? Why can't a day sailor who only sails on Flat Calm Lake come up with an original point or idea relevant to the topic at hand.
Then there is the 'you weren't there' types. It appears unless you were in those conditions, at that time, in that location in that type of boat you shouldn't discuss or comment on it. I don't think anybody can have total comprehension of any situation regardless of being there or not. People make decisions through their interpretation of the situation. People's interpretations differ so I don't understand why it can't be discussed.
Then there is the 'all the facts' camp. Until all the facts are known then comments or discussion should not occur. Putting the philosophical argument of what a fact is aside I don't think all the the facts will or can be known. So when can a proper discussion occur? Maybe after a report by the CG or possibly a book by one of the survivors? Will facts still not be open to intrepretation?
Lastly is the perjorative and vacuous 'armchair sailor' label. Aren't we all comfortably ensconed in some nook while posting on this forum.
So to sum up unless we are in the given situation as it is occuring, having prior experience of the same situation while having complete knowledge of the situation we are just 'armchair sailors' who should keep our mouthes shut.
However, if we had this knowledge would we be in that situation in the first place?
+1.Obviously call the USCG of you need them but it needs to be about personal responsibility and effort and not relying on the USCG to make up for your short comings.
We sail 4,000 miles per year and would never join a rally but our boat exceeds ISAF standards and we have never had a racer on board who's seamanship was better than my wife's.
And to Smack...how can a guy that looks like that write so well...obviously he has a ghost writer! The camera never lies!
Check our post for trans-Pacific, crew one or two needed Panama to New Zealand, or parts there of, starting February 2014.
I have a face for literature.And to Smack...how can a guy that looks like that write so well...obviously he has a ghost writer! The camera never lies!
I concur. I just prefer debate and discussion without it getting personal unless solicited. I like when these types of situations are discussed where details are still emerging. I try to look at the posts in the context in which they are described and compare them to posts when further details become available.Robust debate and disagreement on here is a great thing, it gives us the chance to think about these issues and have our opinions challenged.
I guess that is a point you and I differ as I will first give consideration to the merits of the argument.Ultimately though I will listen and give more weight to those that do have the experience over the day sailor in threads like this.
IMHO The merit of the argument is specifically related to the perspective of the person making it.I guess that is a point you and I differ as I will first give consideration to the merits of the argument.
Logical argumentation is the very basis of philosophy if it isn't I want some of my uni tuition back.This is not philosophy.
A 'well made argument' would be true otherwise it would not be 'well made' so could not be wrong. In philosophical terms this is called 'the fallacy of denying the antecedent.'A well made argument is great, a discussion won is lovely, but it could still be wrong.
Some here don't appear to appreciate your cheekiness James but I, for one, do.These unappreciative Monday Night Armchair Sailors make me sick!
Here on Sailnet, they simply don't appreciate the amazing opportunity to worship at the feet of these Ocean Giants, amazing geniuses who are capable of fantastic feats of superhuman gallantry by actually SAILING IN THE OCEAN AWAY FROM LAND!!!
Anyone who can SAIL IN THE OCEAN AWAY FROM LAND deserves our everlasting respect and admiration!
By the way, this was no mere gale that surprised a bunch of unprepared geriatric picnic sailors on boats that were too big for them to handle, IT WAS A FULL BLOWN HURRICANE, capable of smashing boats instantly in the Gulfstream, rendering genuine real sailors into quivering, blood-puking, EPIRB-activating survivalists, you damn Monday Night Armchair Sailors!
Now, take some Blue Water Sailing courses and have some respect for your superiors!
You should at least read what others write before accusing them of having unsubstantiated opinions. It is not me that said that those boats sent maydays but the Coast guard. I also posted that two other boats asked for help trough satphone (according to the CG):Once again it would seem some are inserting their opinions as facts here. Paulo took what I said and assumed all the boats that called in sent maydays......
So you have qualified your statements of facts. Is this not then the speculation you are accusing and admonishing others of making?The facts as far as I know
As I said previously I don't believe anybody will know fully what has transpired. I think it is impossible.No one other than those out there know the full facts. I feel the information I have presented is more accurate than what I have read by those who have only read a news report.
I don't see the difference here. The times I have gone off shore, with the exception of racing, a departure date was determined and we left when the weather permitted. Think that's fairly typical.Is this not a schedule?
Quote:
The Fall 2013 Salty Dawg Rally will depart on November 4 (weather permitting) from Bluewater Yachting Center, Hampton, VA (or other locations of your choice), to sail to the British Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, or other various locations.
I don't know the exact numbers of SDR boats involved. The SDR site mentions 5...I guess I'm still misssing your point Smack. Cuisers often go in packs and hire the services of a weather guru.
From what I understand only 2 of the boats were from the SDR out of 116. That's less than 2 percent. Those are numbers the last single handed round the would event would die for. Though the comparision is not exact these are elite sailors.
Regardless of this number/ratio - I'm not in any way talking about what individual or loosely affiliated cruisers do. I'm talking about organized/sponsored rallies.There were several incidents and emergencies among the fleet in the first 36 hours in which five boats had rudder and rig failures, seasickness and one broken arm.
Feeling vindicated?Hey, what the hell? There's a Hunter 36 out there still afloat...and...apparently...sailing! That's not possible.