|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|02-20-2007 07:59 AM|
Cam, Thanks for clarifying for me...
Yes, that is a rough estimate, but it is a bottom end estimate... I have yet to see a boat that didn't use at least 15-20% for changes, modifications and upgrades before the new owner considered it "ready".
Some other boats that you might want to consider: Hallberg Rassy Monsun or Mistral, Southern Cross 31, Nicholson 35.
One thing that might be a problem is that many of the older boats did not have a separate shower... Also, I would not go smaller than 28', as the size of the interior drops dramatically at that point.
As for budgets... $1200 sounds about right if you're relatively self-sufficient and on the hook the majority of the time, but low if you're going to be living in a marina. A lot of the expense is dependent on your "entertainment and dining" section of the budget... if you like eating out and expensive foods... you'll need to budget more...if you like simpler, less expensive foods, then might be able to get away with less.
|02-19-2007 05:14 PM|
Invaluable advise! Wow...maybe I should think about downsizing and not having such a large initial "out of pocket" expense. That Cape Dory looks good. As long as it can sail long distances. I still wonder why it's half the price as anything else? Perhaps I should think about starting off that way, then moving up after a couple of years or so. I eventually want to make my way to the Greek Islands..I love it there!
|02-19-2007 04:19 PM|
BWWB...based upon your latest comments I am still gonna suggest you look at Cape Dory...but a 33. Fits your budget...easily rigged for singlehanding...full keel heavy displacement boat and pretty! All within your budget.
Rick..your budget of $1200/month is realistic I think if you are on the hook but on a dock with air conditioning (YES YOU WILL NEED IT IN FL!!) is probably a bit light for Florida. I would suggest a minimum of $1500 a month if you can find decent dockage in not too ritzy a place that accepts liveaboards. (Finding live aboard dockage my be your biggest problem.)
What Dawg is suggesting with his 15-20% is that on a $100k boat you should also figure on spending $15-20k on upgrades, repairs and adjustments once you get the boat. This is an average and is HIGHLY dependent on the state of the boat you buy. On Camaraderie...we spent nearly 50% of our initial purchase price...but we knew that going in. The key is to know what you are getting into up front! Once you've made that initial investment and upgrades, you might want to budget around 10% of boat value annually for repairs and maintenance. Some years you will spend way less and others way more....but sooner or later stuff happens!
|02-19-2007 03:40 PM|
Thanks Sailingdog! My budget for purchasing a boat is preferrably under 100k, the less the better since I will be paying cash (so as not to have payments, obviously). I have been advised that 25 to 35 feet is sufficient for a liveaboard and easier to handle alone. I would like to have about a 33'er, with a separate shower (I've heard stories). My trips would basically be solo, unless I meet someone willing to go with me.
The only reason Alberg was in the running was the prices of them. In my mind, you get what you pay for, so I was steering away from them.
When you say "boat budget of 15% to 20%...are you talking about the percentage of the cost of the boat? I have figured about $1,200 per month for repairs, maintenance, dock, food, traveling and no entertainment (the experience is entertainment enough). What do you think "all mighty experienced one?" LOL.
I appreciate your knowledge, expertise and willing to help.
|02-19-2007 02:58 PM|
I don't think that the Alberg 30 is all that light a design...and it is capable of crossing oceans. The HC33 is a very different purpose boat, in many ways, having the long bowsprit, and wider beam, heavier displacement, etc. However, if you're not heading off immediately, it would seem to me that getting the HC33 would cost you quite a bit more money, both in initial cost and in on-going costs.
Other boats that might be worth looking at are the Hallberg Rassy line of boats, which are also built specifically for bluewater passagemaking. The Nicholson 35 is another good candidate.
It would help to know what your estimated budget for buying said boat is...as that will be a limiting factor, more than almost anything else. One last thing—I generally recommend putting about 15-20% of the "boat budget" aside for the upgrades, repairs, and re-fitting that is going to be necessary to any boat that you end up buying. Unlike a car, most boats need to have some things changed, modified or updated to work the way you sail your boat.
Also, what size boat are you looking for? How many people will be going cruising with you?? The larger the boat, generally, the more complicated the systems and the more expensive it is to own and maintain. A boat that is too large is quite possibly as much of a danger to its crew as one that is too small, and there are plenty of boats in the 30-37' range that are more than capable of being used as liveaboards and going bluewater as well.
If you're comparing the HC33 and the Alberg 30, you still really need to do a fair bit more research in what you're looking for in a boat IMHO, as the two are really not comparable
|02-19-2007 02:25 PM|
Hey wannabe, the HC33T is definitely a world traveler. My slip mates have a beautiful example and have cruised for 5 years. They are now building the kitty and building a final dock to before taking off for the next cruise. This boat has brought them through some very challenging conditions in great style. Folks walking the docks here always admire their boat because they do keep her in Bristol fashion. They are SSCA Commodores and would be happy to share with you. Send me a PM and I will put you in touch if you like.
|02-19-2007 02:08 PM|
Well, thanks guys! The alberg just seems to be a lighter boat. I am in need of one a slighty heavier to withstand ocean crossings. I did a little research on the Tayana (camaraderie), beautiful craft!!!!! But a little to much money for my wallet.
I think it's between the Hans Christian and if I can earn enough money, perhaps the Tayana. Thanks again guys!!
|02-19-2007 10:54 AM|
Dawg...Ooops...how did I do that?? That's what happens when I post before my morning coffee!
wannabe...Anyway...the CD30 is one you should be looking at if you like the Alberg. As Dawg sez..the HC33 is a VASTLY different boat.
|02-19-2007 10:41 AM|
Umm... Cam, he's asking about a Hans Christian, not a Cape Dory 30...
You don't say which hans christian you're looking at specifically. If it is the HC33, then one of the reasons there is a big price difference, is the HC33 is a lot bigger than the A30.
The HC33 is almost twice the displacement of the A30, about 3' more beam, and about 7' more on the waterline.
The HC33 is 41' LOA, versus the 30.25' for the A30.
The HC33 also has much larger tankage (80 gal Diesel, 90 gal. water) than the A30, being designed as a bluewater passagemaker, which the A30, although capable of doing so, was not specifically designed to do.
While both are capable of making bluewater passages, and both are basically full-keel, traditional designed sloop-rigged sailboats—these are significantly different boats... and the HC33 will cost a lot more in the long run to store, dock, haul out, etc... as much of these fees are related directly to the LOA of the boat.
The A30 will probably be the better of the two boats, especially when it comes to light air sailing, as it has an SA/D ratio of 15.1 vs. 10.0 for the HC33... However, once the wind picks up, the HC33 will ultimately go faster, having a much longer waterline.
|02-19-2007 09:22 AM|
Well...they are different boats for one thing...made by different builders (Whitby vs. cape Dory) Another thing is the age...CD30's were built from the mid-70's to mid 80's as opposed to the early 60's to late 70's on the A30.
Fully restored...both are excellent ocean going boats but you should read up on the A30 by googling the owners association as there are lots of potential problems to be aware of during survey.
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