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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-23-2016 06:23 PM
FLFrers36
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Ah Yes, my friend. We get <5kts around Tampa Bay quite often. Just got to go slow and deliberate when tacking
03-23-2016 03:52 PM
Sailormon6
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLFrers36 View Post
Seriously? My wife and I (late 50s, no deck apes) have no problems taking 155% RF on our older 36' IOR boat. Just tack and trim to lifelines, skirt, and trim close hauled. If too challenging, invite "guests" (err crew) to help. Much response with beer and food. Sheeesh
Yes, seriously. You're probably not sailing much in light air (3-5 kt winds). It's not as easy as sailing in 8-15 kts.
03-23-2016 01:44 PM
FLFrers36
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Seriously? My wife and I (late 50s, no deck apes) have no problems taking 155% RF on our older 36' IOR boat. Just tack and trim to lifelines, skirt, and trim close hauled. If too challenging, invite "guests" (err crew) to help. Much response with beer and food. Sheeesh
03-22-2016 10:36 PM
Classic30
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormon6 View Post
j
I'll grant that's probably true of some full keelers, but I have sailed some full keel boats that actually sail fairly well in light air, and tack nicely without backwinding. I think a full keel boat that carries a big rig with sufficiently generous sail area can maintain enough boat speed to carry it through the tack without backwinding. It depends on the boat. You have to do whatever works.
Depends on the boat.. and the sea conditions: if you're heading into a swell in light airs it's annoying when a wave knocks you back onto your old tack. ..and it's even more embarrasing when I get a fresh gung-ho crew off a plastic-racer on board and they get the headsail across nice and quick the instant I call "Tacking!" only to find we're now nicely hove-to in the middle of a busy race fleet. My boat heaves-to very nicely!!

But yes, unless you're sailing a square-rigger where the rudder is a trim-tab and the sails are for steering, you should only ever need to back-wind under a set range of wind/sea conditions...
03-22-2016 09:33 PM
Sailormon6
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
Mon, on a modern plastic go-fast you're quite correct, but on something like my old girl (a full-keeled classic cruiser designed to sail straight whatever angle of heel) if we don't back-wind the jib in winds <5kts we either won't tack at all or will take ages to do so... because without using the sails you need steerage-way to be able to tack and in light winds I lose steerage from the moment the helm goes over.

Done right it doesn't kill boat-speed appreciably and ensures a smooth tack every time.. but that headsail must be across before we get head-to-wind or, yes, we'll stop dead.
j
I'll grant that's probably true of some full keelers, but I have sailed some full keel boats that actually sail fairly well in light air, and tack nicely without backwinding. I think a full keel boat that carries a big rig with sufficiently generous sail area can maintain enough boat speed to carry it through the tack without backwinding. It depends on the boat. You have to do whatever works.
03-22-2016 09:07 PM
Classic30
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormon6 View Post
I can't think of a good reason to ever backwind the jib, unless I wanted to kill boatspeed for some reason, or make the jib tailer look inept.
Mon, on a modern plastic go-fast you're quite correct, but on something like my old girl (a full-keeled classic cruiser designed to sail straight whatever angle of heel) if we don't back-wind the jib in winds <5kts we either won't tack at all or will take ages to do so... because without using the sails you need steerage-way to be able to tack and in light winds I lose steerage from the moment the helm goes over.

Done right it doesn't kill boat-speed appreciably and ensures a smooth tack every time.. but that headsail must be across before we get head-to-wind or, yes, we'll stop dead.
03-22-2016 08:30 PM
Sailormon6
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

I've tried the gamut of knots that are usually recommended for attaching a jibsheet, and can't honestly say I have found any that works significantly better than any other. I use bowlines to attach the jibsheets for cruising as well as for racing.

I also don't backwind the jib during a tack, because 1) it's not necessary (there are better ways of getting the jib across and past the shrouds), 2) it doesn't really help, and 3) it causes adverse effects. (backwinding the jib is the equivalent of putting on the brakes and kills boatspeed; also, the jib tailer only has a few seconds to haul in the jibsheet and when you delay the release of the working jibsheet, you are using up more than half of the time that the tailer has to tail the sheet on the new side. As a result, either the sail luffs on the new side until he can grind it in, or the helmsman has to bear farther off the wind to get the jib driving. Either result costs speed and time.)

Regardless of the knots you use, the sheets seldom snag during a tack in moderate or stronger winds. The wind is strong enough to lift the sail clear of the shrouds after the bow passes the eye of the wind. It only becomes a problem in lighter air.

There are techniques you can use that work better than backwinding the jib, without the adverse effects. On any boat, moving crew weight to the new leeward side during the tack causes the boat to heel. (In light air, that's where you'll want crew weight to be after the tack anyway.) When the boat heels, the top of the mast will tilt to leeward, and, when combined with a little lift from whatever air movement you have, gravity will help the sail fall away to leeward of the stays. A small unballasted, or lightly ballasted boat especially responds well to the shifting of the weight of only one person.

Whenever you have crew, one of them should be sent to the foredeck in light air to walk the sail around the rigging. On a small boat, you might be able to grasp a sheet and flip the sail past the shrouds without leaving the cockpit.

I can't think of a good reason to ever backwind the jib, unless I wanted to kill boatspeed for some reason, or make the jib tailer look inept.
03-22-2016 06:35 PM
roverhi
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

To keep the sail from hanging up on the shroud, get a single line equal to the length of the two sheets, brummel splice it to the sail at mid point in the line. Voila, no more knots to hang up. Does require a dedicated sheet for the sail but with roller furling, you'll probably use this sail for 99% of you sailing and you already have the current sheets for other sails. A brummel splice is simply passing one of the line through the other and the same for the other end. This is not the locking Brummell that most of the videos show. This worked for me fine on a sail to Hawaii where I was on the same tack for 10 days. If you don't like the Brummell splice idea after trying it, just pull the lines back through the other and you once again have a single long line.

You can also go with a cow hitch but this may allow the rope to creep through the hitch resulting in one side with more line than the other. Haven't used a cow hitch for any length of time so don't know if it's really an issue. A cow hitch has worked fine for day sailing a couple of times.
03-22-2016 03:10 AM
overbored
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

Bilge keel boats that small will be overpowered by a genoa if the rig can handle the load. with a genoa you will be sailing sideways most of the time. if the rudder can even control the boat.
03-22-2016 01:11 AM
PaulinVictoria
Re: Tacking a Genoa?

I wouldn't bother, especially if you haven't even sailed it yet, small rig but there isn't a lot below the water either, I think you'd be quickly overpowered.
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