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Rallies Gone Wrong

128K views 960 replies 76 participants last post by  xort 
#1 ·
#48 ·
In making decisions as to what the wind is going to do, I put a lot of reliance on the 500mb charts before even looking at surface charts. Looking at today's 500mb chart: http://weather.noaa.gov/pub/fax/PPAA10.gif it's apparent that the 564 line, that line which determines storm tracks and weather patterns, is right off the Chesapeake. This "cold front" barreled through just when they decided to leave. I wonder whether too much weight is given to surface forecasts rather than looking at the bigger picture of the mid level winds. There is a good explanation of interpreting the 500mb charts here:Mariners Weather Log Vol. 52, No. 3, December 2008 IMO, having a basic grasp over weather principles really helps in making sailing decisions.
 
#50 ·
Someone here recommended Caroline Alexander's The Bounty to me a while back, which I read. It gave me a good appreciation for the extraordinary capability of Bligh. He was no common seaman.
 
#55 ·
Some here are forgetting that Capt. Bligh had a pretty large crew of experience sea men that were motivated to get home to England. Tough men who lived in tough times. Could he have done it by himself or with a crew of four or five? Maybe/maybe not. Would he have called for help had help been callable? Probably, unless he really was the asole he is said to have been.
As to limiting offshore cruising/racing to large boats, how can one state seriously the minimum size that could be said to be safe enough and durable enough that help will not be required for any conditions that could be possible?
I sure hope insurance is never the determiner for who gets to go sailing. Look how that industry so royally screws us every day. Also, the Coast Guard is somewhat like the emergency room. They really cannot turn down a request for help. Should the requester be financially liable for the help requested? You answer is probably directly proportional to how red meat conservative you are, or how far removed you are from the danger.
 
#68 ·
Luck and skill...sometimes work together. ;-)

It would have been very unlucky to have been anywhere near the phillipines this week in an open boat
substitute 'any' for 'open' :)

Sorry folks, I did not mean to start a war. The tongue-in-cheek list was a reminder that big boats can get into trouble too. Maybe that's their 'bad luck'. The riff on Bligh was a reminder that small boats can do a lot more than they are given credit for if they are lucky enough to have a crew of skilled seamen. *NOWHERE* did I intend to imply equality between large and small boats. If that is what you read, I apologize for not expressing myself more clearly.

Gary
 
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#71 ·
when I took my 100 ton masters it was as simple as having a captain sign your log book, saying you actually sailed...truth be told ANYONE could do this...I used my logbook as I was the captain on my boat and then had the captain of the spanish boat I crewed on sign my other...

never did somebody verify this...and this was at one of the bigger schools in ft lauderdale fl...

and I trully agree...licenses SHOULD be practical tests...or be much more hands on...not to mention I still beleive that the whole 6pack and masters licenses are really useless when it comes down to it...sooo much jibberish and very little practical real world information..
oh and even less useful for sailors...I laughed so hard when the sailing endorsement was basically a 5 page booklet that one took AFTER the whole course...same for towing...

about rallies I remember there was one going up the red sea when the pirate attacks started becoming more frequent and we decided to go alone and not use our navigation lights at night specifically to help us be less evident and be caught...we used radar though.

The last thing we would of wanted was to be a huge floating mass of sailboats all in a herd all lit up and communicating between eachother day an night like most rallies do, making us the biggest target ever!

anywhoo

the great thing about it all is that one has options still...last thing I would want is for every country to adopt laws forcing people to be "masters of the sea" and make it so hard to go beyond the harbor or achorage without doing something ilegal that it would kill most peoples aspirations to even start sailing.

rallies when done well can be nice...the baja haha for example has a great record...and doesnt imply its something greater than it really is etc...

peace
 
#74 ·
Smack, rallies are not races except that they may cross the same hunk of ocean. The vessels are different, the crews are different and the intentions of the trip are different.

It would be nice to think that people are smart and aware enough to make proper decisions, but I suspect at some point there will be legislation requiring qualifications like yacht master before a voyage can start.

Had a thought about this. Is there a problem with the common sailor's nature to exaggerate the winds and seas they are in. We have all heard people in the YC bar talking about being out with full #1 and main in 35 knots and 10 foot seas in their xxxxxxx 27 when in fact the winds never went above 22 and the waves 6 feet. They hear about offshore conditions being similar to what they have 'experienced' and feel comfortable with going.
 
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#77 ·
Smack, rallies are not races except that they may cross the same hunk of ocean. The vessels are different, the crews are different and the intentions of the trip are different.

.....
Yes but neither the sea is different as probably the sailors are less experienced. Minimum safety standards should apply yo all organised offshore events.

Regards

Paulo
 
#75 · (Edited)
The frequency of these incidents creates a good business opportunity for a salvage company near Hatteras. One could send a boat 200 miles off the coast at the start of each rally, then with radio coordination onshore and maybe a helicopter or plane, locate, secure and board these relatively, expensive large sailboats when the courageous skippers call for a rescue and abandon when they start feeling queasy. Collect the salvage fee and repeat!
 
#79 ·
I came to this conclusion after looking at the tracking data on the rally's web page. Three of the boats were not listed.
When an incident like this hits the news, it sets off a lot of discussion about the who, what, when, where and (especially) why. Yet news coverage is sketchy, inaccurate, and confusing. Confusing because often the reports use terms inaccurately.
At one point in our discussion, the size of the boats was indicated to be an important factor. It seems that there are seven boats under 40 feet, about 50 that are between 40 and 50 feet, 13 are between 50 and 60 feet and one over 60 feet. These aren't dinks out there braving the elements. Indeed, most of the comments are along the lines "boat and crew doing fine, good sailing".
Maybe it's my goody two shoes attitude, but one would think that the owner of a 40-60 foot sailboat would have prepared himself and his boat before embarking on a major sea voyage. It seems that this is in fact true.
So now it appears that two salty dog ralliers made calls for assistance. A Morgan OI 416 suffering from seasickness asked to be evacuated. And a 38 foot dismasted sailboat called but refused evacuation and is continuing on to the Bahamas.
For their sake, I hope the SDR people parse the news and give an account of how their participants fared. One case of a sea sick crew should be treated as an anomaly.
One thought cones up though. Maybe the CG should air drop some of those electronic sea sickness wrist bands to a crew like that on the Ahmisa and check back later.
 
#80 ·
So basically there should have been 2 pan pans. Don't think there is a need for aspersions for this particular rally. I do question a may day call for seasickness by a boat that has not been underway for very long. It appears they risked the safety of the CG for their own comfort. The report was that they were also taking on water and that might be the case so would be a reason for a mayday. However if that boat is later found still afloat I think the people should be charged for the rescue. Some might think this could have a chilling effect and it should because going offshore in a pleasure craft is a choice and people need to take personal responsibility. I think charging people for superfluous rescues would have a larger impact then any regulations.
 
#86 ·
I do not disagree, not with you neither with Tom. That as to do with responsibility and living in society. Someone that calls for a rescue when there is not a life threatening situation is irresponsible. Someone that sails offshore in a boat not meant to or in bad shape is irresponsible.

This is a question about responsibility an knowledge and the main issue is to know if the decisions should be free (like going to sail without knowing nothing about it or in an unsuitable boat) and later people be held responsible for their actions or if should be taken preventive measures regarding people going to the sea without knowing what they are doing and in anything that floats.

Clearly in Europe they have gone to preventive measures. On most countries the boats have to be insured and RCD says exactly what is the type of boat that can be used in each situation. Defines minimum requirements regarding the boats that can be used offshore and the boats have to be certified by the manufacturer. On top of that the boats have pass regular inspections and it is not only necessary to have a boat that is authorized to do that but also to have all the equipment needed for that.

Even if you have all that is needed in what regards material, you will need a licence that supposedly says that you are competent. An Oceanic licence can only obtained after several years and several other licences that include not only knowledge but practice.

I am not saying that this is a perfect system or the right way but certainly will prevent a crazy guy that decides to set sail for the horizon with a derelict, risking the lives of others and cost a fortune in SAR operations to be paid by all.

The other way to do it is maintaining apparently freedom without any limitations and make mandatory for the ones that sail a SAR insurance that will pay an eventual rescue. Insurance companies will take car of making impossible mad situations. They will charge according to the risk and for the ones that the risk is too high, they simply will not find an insurance and will not be able to put their live or others lives in jeopardy.

Take your pick;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#91 ·
I went to the saltydawg rally web site and listened to the daily radio logs they have recorded. The Morgan 416 that requested rescue was on the recording. They reported taking on water beyond the capacity of their pumps and at least one crew member seasick to the point of uncontrollably vomiting blood.

Seems to be well beyond queasy.
 
#103 · (Edited)
I went to the saltydawg rally web site and listened to the daily radio logs they have recorded. The Morgan 416 that requested rescue was on the recording. They reported taking on water beyond the capacity of their pumps and at least one crew member seasick to the point of uncontrollably vomiting blood.

Seems to be well beyond queasy.
Exactly, some of these folks should never have been offshore, given their general physical condition. I have been severely seasick twice to the point of vomiting and nauseated at least half a dozen times to the point where it affected my performance. Scary stuff. Lack of sleep, anxiety and dehydration definitely contribute to mal de mer. In those conditions, you might not want to be outside, looking at the horizon or steering.

Understanding your physical condition and your limits are important considerations in cruising. Many of these big boat sailors might be better suited to being safely inside on the ICW, instead of 200 miles off Hatteras...:)
 
#92 ·
Paolo, you need to come visit Texas and a few other states to understand my comment. We actually have regulations up to our ears, probably much like in Europe. Which has led to political upheaval intent on destroying government, first the national and then the state level. There are many who believe in the "self made man" myth and live by a "frontier" mentality. Being a a member of society is secondary to being a free man, but always responsible for you self. It is like the slogan from the Revolutionay War - "Live free or die."
John
 
#96 · (Edited)
Sorry, I'm late to this party, but just want to offer a few comments, regarding what I see as a fair amount of misconception in this thread...

The 1500 and the SD did NOT depart at roughly the same time... While a few SD boats - CELEBRATION, DISTANT STAR departed well in advance of the majority of the SD fleet, the 1500 has been sailing in an entirely different weather situation... Dave/Auspicious and I had some discussion of this in the "Where do I sleep" thread a week ago...

Heed Dave's comments on the Salty Dawg... I know the Knowles' as well, they're very experienced, and have put together a very good program with the SD... It is a VERY loosely organized 'rally' in comparison to the 1500, they have always made it very clear their function is not to hold anyone's hand, everyone is responsible for making their own decisions re departures, and everything else... The Salth Dawg Rally definitely does NOT adhere to any sort of 'schedule', whatsoever...

I've only heard bits and pieces over the past two days, having been on the water myself... I left Annapolis Friday morning with a Cabo Rico 42, and just returned to the boat from the usual wonderful dinner in Coinjock...

I'm inclined to believe the conditions that the boats offshore saw might have been considerably more impressive than what's being reported... Our sail down the Bay yesterday and last night was fantastic, but featured a lot more breeze behind that front than was forecast... Talking with some boats here tonight in Coinjock, that were held up for a couple of days in Portsmouth waiting for a passage thru the damaged Great Bridge Lock, it sounded like the weather that passed thru the Tidewater in association with the latest front was pretty serious... And, based upon the kick-ass sail we had yesterday down to Smith Point, I'd believe it...

From what I understand, a Catana 46 was dismasted, and a Catalina 42 ("JAMMIN") has lost their steering...

As I said to Dave last week, I think the 1500 made the better call this year, leaving when they did... They've had a very fast trip, but some pretty challenging conditions for much of the way... When the crew of a boat like a Hylas 54 reports that "everything is absolutely soaked", you know it's been a pretty sporty ride, hard on the breeze. Good luck to all those out there, looks like another very broad area of gale conditions will develop from Hatteras to Canaveral by Wednesday.... I'm hoping to at least hop outside again on Tuesday from Morehead to Wrightsville, but even that might be cutting it close, we shall see, but I'm guessing I'll be inside the rest of the way from Little River to Charleston...

Anyway, sorry this is rather disjointed, haven't had much sleep since Annapolis :) But based upon what I've seen and heard out on the water the past 2 days, I'm inclined to give some of these rally participants the benefit of the doubt, some of these recent weather features have been highly localized, variable, and intense...

btw, for those that haven't had the pleasure, a CR 42 on a broad reach in 30 knots of November breeze, it's like sailing a freight train, what a sweet ride... :) We had the Bay mostly to ourselves yesterday, though we did pass one catamaran north of Cove Point who was motoring in those conditions, hugging the western shore, and flying no sail whatsoever...

Some people should just be shot... :)
 
#99 ·
I'm inclined to believe the conditions that the boats offshore saw might have been considerably more impressive than what's being reported... Our sail down the Bay yesterday and last night was fantastic, but featured a lot more breeze behind that front than was forecast...
And before anyone beats up the forecasters, the weather was quite odd. We don't often see cold fronts pushed along in front of a high instead of dragged along by a low. The high stalled and the cold front intensified over Tidewater Virginia and then drifted offshore to pound the boats out there. It was all very flaky. I don't think anyone got it right.

I agree that C1500 made the best call leaving Saturday although conditions have been sporty. I was recommending Sunday night into Monday morning which might have been late. Mid- to late-week turned out not to be so great. Everyone was trying to make conservative assessments but the weather simply didn't develop the way we expected.

btw, for those that haven't had the pleasure, a CR 42 on a broad reach in 30 knots of November breeze, it's like sailing a freight train, what a sweet ride... :)
Are you on Utopia?
 
#97 ·
They reported taking on water beyond the capacity of their pumps and at least one crew member seasick to the point of uncontrollably vomiting blood.

Seems to be well beyond queasy.
If in such a dire state of health I got to wonder why medical treatment was refused once ashore.

As I said before if they were taking on water then that could be a valid reason for a mayday. However if the boat is found afloat then their story wouldn't hold water. Couldn't resist the pun.
 
#98 ·
I think it is important to point out that not all rallies are the same or even similar. The 1500 and SD point this out as do events like Sail Indonesia which seems to be focussed on dealing with the country's incredible bureaucracy. The Pacific Puddle Jumpers is nominally a rally but you can leave from anywhere on the Pacific coast of the Americas (we went from Ecuador) whenever you want so long as you reach French Polynesia within a window of a few months.
 
#101 ·
I personally think as group sailors contribute enough to society, but this is the kind of wonderfully emotive topic that get's people all angry and righteous everytime some poor bastard punches his eprib.

Without getting political- I think you will find that the money spent rescuing sailors is insignificant compared to the money governments spend dealing with things like self imposed health issues, crime, etc etc. When everyone receives a bill for their burden on society then I will be open to sailors paying more.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
 
#106 ·
This thread would have to be the biggest heap of stinking armchair excrement I have seen on Sailnet in a while.

Two boats we know very little about have gotten in trouble offshore in circumstances we know very little about. Thats the story. That and they were part of a rally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy
You can have the best weather router in the world - but weather changes - as you've just pointed out. Then it comes down to the preparedness of the participants. If they aren't prepared - you have a serious problem.

Why not hold rallies to the same safety standards as races? It really makes little sense not to.

Standards??? Regulation??? From Mr BFS.......

Bite me.

Because cruising is not racing.

I go cruising to escape bureaucratic morons trying to tell me what to do. Thankyou very much but I will not be asking them to inspect my boat and grant me permission to take my boat offshore.

Two words.

Skippers Responsibility.

It begins and ends there.

Rallies can be fun. I didn't think they would be our cup of tea, but they have helped us build confidence, not because we expected other experienced boats to bail us out offshore, but because we got to chat with those guys before we went and we learn't a thing or two and when we got there those guys were also there to raise a glass and toast the fact that we had conquered challenges.
If any one let's a rally make decisions for them and follows blindly then they are an idiot and need to read the two words above. However if being in a rally every now and then makes us bad, irresponsible silly sailors then......

Bite me.

As for PCP charging us all, taxing and licensing sailors to the hilt......

Bite me.

That conversation annoy me and i have had it several times.
This is a sailing forum these kind of the things are the fodder for discussion. That is what forums are for.

As for your bold faced statement I agree with you completely, see post no.80. However the name calling, the telling of people what to do and your general tenor is rude. This kind of crap belongs to forums like SA and not SN.
 
#112 · (Edited)
I don't think I called anyone a name, or told anyone what to do other than to bite me. I did use strong language to illustrate a point a feel very strongly about, perhaps that equates 'rude tenor'.

I agree with a lot of what you said but the tone was a bit much in my opinion.

Personally, I learn a lot from threads that discuss situations such as this. You have the people who have been out there and done it sharing with those who have not or hope to. It's how people learn. It's part of why this forum exists. After some time being in the forum you identify the sailors with the actual experience and those who haven't left the couch and you sort through the information provided so that you can add to your own bag of sailing tools to become a better sailor.
Perhaps I went A bit far with that line. I had read through the entire thread and that was the first thing thought that popped into my head. I really have an issue ( you may have noticed) with further regulation and interference into what is my life. :)
 
#107 ·
Obviously, a few of these big boat owners should have hired an experienced pro
Many of these big boat sailors might be better suited to being safely inside on the ICW, instead of 200 miles off Hatteras...
Now that I sail boats over 30 ft. I should stay inshore or can I still go out in the ocean safely ?
I've never vomited on a boat, from seasickness.;)
 
#114 · (Edited)
Now that I sail boats over 30 ft. I should stay inshore or can I still go out in the ocean safely ?
Sorry, you need a minimum of 40 ft. to go in the ocean safely, soon to be required by regulation. Plus, you must have completed all the ASA courses, including the Blue Water Sailing course (only $1,999 for a limited time) and crewed on someone else's 40+ foot boat in the ocean. Sailing is an esoteric art, limited to a few initiates, not every slob who can afford a boat...sailing is rocket science, after all!

I've never vomited on a boat, from seasickness.;)
If you feel you are about to vomit, please immediately activate your EPIRB while you can still operate it. You might also consider attaching it to the vomit bucket so you can have it handy before vomiting.:) One of our sponsors is having a 2 EPRIBs for the price of 1 special! (you can never have enough EPIRBS, particularly if one of the crew locks himself in the head with one.)

You should also activate the EPIRB if any rain-driven water drips from the windows or the front hatch. (Tell the Coast Guard you are "taking on water.") You can never activate it too early!
 
#110 · (Edited)
Here's a breakdown of each incident provided by the U.S. Coast Guard:

Rescue #1:

Crewmembers aboard the 41-foot sailboat, Ahimsa, sent out a distress signal via a satellite tracking device, stating that they were taking on water approximately 230 miles east of Virginia Beach and were in need of assistance.

5th District watchstanders launched crews aboard a Hercules airplane to search and a Jayhawk helicopter to perform the rescue. Watchstanders also contacted the Navy, who diverted the USS Vella Gulf to assist.

At approximately 11 p.m., the Jayhawk crew arrived at the Vella Gulf's location and refuled aboard the ship. Proceeding from the Vella Gulf, the Jayhawk hoisted four people from the Ahimsa at approximately 1:30 a.m., and took the boaters back to Air Station Elizabeth City, where they declined medical treatment.

Rescue #2:

In a second case, crewmembers aboard the 38-foot sailboat Nyapa, sent out a distress signal via a satellite tracking device stating that they had lost their mast and were taking on water approximately 275 miles east of Virginia Beach and were in need of assistance.

5th District Watchstanders diverted the first Hercules crew from the Ahimsa case to search for the Nyapa, but were unable to locate the boat. A HC-130 crew from the air station launched at approximately 10 p.m., and utilizing new information recieved from the coordinator of the Salty Dawg Rally, located the Nyapa and established communications.

A crewmember aboard the Nyapa stated they had 4 people aboard and confirmed they lost their mast, but no one was injured and they were continuing south via motors and no longer needed assistance.

Rescue #3:

In a third case, 5th District watchstanders received an alert from an emergency position indicating radio beacon registered the sailboat Aurora. The alert positioned the Aurora 230 miles east of Elizabeth City, N.C.

Both Hercules crews searched the area but were unable to locate the boat. The crew of a nearby sailboat, the Dreamreach, responded to the Coast Guard's radio broadcasts inquiring the after Aurora, stating that they had been in contact with the vessel and that the Aurora was not in distress and were heading to Bermuda.

Rescue #4:

In a fourth case, crewmembers aboard the sailboat Brave Heart, located approximately 50 miles southeast of Ocracoke Inlet, N.C., contacted Sector North Carolina watchstanders, reporting a 67-year-old man aboard had a arm injury.

Watchstanders launched a Coast Guard Station Hatteras Inlet crew aboard a 47-foot Motor Life Boat to attempt a medevac. Once on scene, the MLB was unable to conduct the medevac due to adverse weather conditions.

The Coast Guard Cutter Block Island was dispatched to escort the Brave Heart into Beaufort, N.C., but was diverted to assist with another case with a disabled sailboat. Watchstanders established a communication schedule with the Brave Heart and planned to send a crew from Coast Guard Station Fort Macon to escort the Brave Heart in, but crewmembers aboard the Brave Heart stated they no longer needed Coast Guard assistance.

Rescue #5:

In a fifth case, crewmembers aboard the 54-foot sailboat, Zulu, located approximately 100 miles east of Oregon Inlet, N.C., contacted Sector North Carolina watchstanders via satellite phone, reporting that they were disabled and adrift. The Cutter Block Island crew arrived on scene and is preparing to set up a tow to bring the Zulu back to shore.


U.S. Coast Guard Comes to Rescue of ?Salty Dogs? Off Virginia Coast | gCaptain ? Maritime & Offshore News

Another report from a newspaper>

Late Thursday night, the Coast Guard rescued four people from a sailboat off Va. Beach. The boaters on the Ahimsa were glad to be rescued and said they suffered from extreme sea sickness after getting hit by 12-foot waves.

Two other sailboats, the Nyapa and the Aurora which are part of the race, have been located and are fine, the U.S. Coast Guard confirmed. The crew aboard the boat off Va. Beach reporting their boat has a broken mast but they're under motor power.

The boat off the NC coast was spotted by another boat in the area. It relayed a message that all aboard are fine and they're continuing the race to the Bahamas.

In a fourth case, the Coast Guard went to assist boaters on the Brave Heart, off Ocracoke, NC, but bad weather hampered their efforts. Later communication from the boaters said they were no longer in distress.

Coast Guard rescues boaters off Va. Beach; 4 other boats OK | WVEC.com Norfolk - Hampton Roads

ST PETERSBURG, FL -
The Coast Guard rescued three stranded sailors who were trapped 80 miles west of Tampa.

On Monday afternoon, the sailing boat 'Grateful' was making its way from Louisiana to Cape Coral. The three-man crew was delivering it to its owner when things went horribly wrong.

"It was nerve wracking," said sailor Brian Burke. "By Monday morning, we had lost our engines, blown out a sail, and by that time we were adrift."

The crew sent out a distress signal.

"Within about an hour and 45 minutes we had a helicopter overhead, he was communicating with us," said sailor Craig Toomey.

Soon after, the Coast Guard Cutter 'Nantucket' was sent to the rescue.

"[The water] was pretty bad," Captain Ryan Waitt said. "The biggest issue was the seas were building, we saw about 6 to 8 feet."

"It was a little dicey, and a little uncomfortable and not something I wanna do again anytime soon," said Cleve Fair, another sailor on board....Currently, the 'Grateful' is still disabled and stranded at sea....Despite this obvious mishap, these men still plan to finish the job they started, and deliver the boat to Cape Coral.




Coast Guard rescues 3 boaters 80 miles west of Tampa - WFLA News Channel 8

ST. PETERSBURG - Three boaters who were stranded in the water after their vessel's engine lost power Monday were all brought to safety at the Coast Guard Sector St. Petersburg Tuesday.
The boaters' 30-foot sailing vessel shut off 80 miles west of Tampa Monday, according to reports.
Watchstanders at the Coast Guard 7 th district in Miami received a distress signal at 8:50 a.m. Monday. ...

Cleveland Fair, a 74-year-old resident of Mandeville, La., thanked the crew of the Coast Guard Cutter Nantucket, a 110-foot Island Class patrol boat homeported in St. Petersburg, Fla., for rescuing him and his two friends at Sector St. Petersburg, Tuesday.
No injuries occurred.


Read more: Three boaters rescued by Coast Guard after boat engine died returned to St. Petersburg

If you guys think that this is all normal, that a Mayday should be sent on all these situations and that the tax payers should pay for all of this ....well, its American tax payer money and I guess that even if some of those situations here would not be normal, I guess that it is all a cultural question, but I wonder who is the nanny state:rolleyes:.

....
 
#111 ·
Vomiting blood, is not any seasickness I've heard of. Maybe ulcer, perforated something, but not seasickness. My crew was vomiting blood, especially bright red, I'd get him to med services ASAP.
Again, I would ask why the person refused medical treatment once ashore. That is what piqued my curiosity along with saying they were taking on water rather then sinking. Could be bad reporting I don't know but it does makes me wonder.
 
#113 ·
I would take anything reported by the media with a grain of salt.
Maybe they refused going to the emergency room as they found a doctor to treat them.

Not exactly the same as refused medical treatment but could be reported as such.
 
#116 ·
That limitation would be a shame since it would prevent that Swedish guy that has a fixation on really small boats to circumnavigate non stop on a boat with a bit more than 1m. We would never would be able to know if it is safe to circumnavigate in a boat with less than 2m and that would be a shame.

The real value of that information is much superior to all costs of a possible rescue and those costs are perfectly justified since that information is useful to all, sailors and non sailors alike.
 
#117 ·
Here in Australia we rescue our fair share of sailors. ( Normally singlehanded Europeans in the Southern Ocean :))

Like I said Paulo it is a wonderfully emotive discussion, every-time it happens here people run that kind of line. The same people would think nothing about dialling our 911 equivalent on land if in the course of pursuing their lifestyle they found themselves in harms way.

Incidentally we kind of do what you are suggesting unofficially. Here in Australia if you get in trouble along the coast, you will most likely be 'rescued' by a volunteer organisation known as Marine Rescue. After your tow back, there is an unofficial system in place where you are strongly encouraged to perhaps make a sizeable donation their way :)
 
#118 · (Edited)
I am just catching up on this thread so bare with me. I have been here in Georgia shaking-down my new boat. I am not sure what was reported here on the real weather that was out there has beed accurate. When I first heard of the news I pulled the Navy Weather Ocean data. Seas were 25 feet or greater and gale force winds 40-50 knots. Down south here in GA we had 40 knots winds and seas 15-20' just off the coast. Needless to say we did not go out. We did go out yesterday for Shakedown #2 in 20-30 knot winds and 5-7 foot seas 3 sec spacing. The seas are a mess still but getting better. The new boat and crew did great in our practice run out there. Having sailed at 5-6 knots my whole life and now sailing with a longer waterline and sailing 8-9.7 knots it is a whole new world out there. We were very comfortable when I figured out which boat speed is best for sea conditions.
Bottom line, is if any boats were in the Gulf Stream in that kind of weather, boats will break without good seamanship, crews will get sick and injuries will happen. I just hope those that are Monday Night Armchair Sailing have been out in these kinds of seas and winds. I suspect NOT for most here.
Another thought I have is the number #1 thread here on SailNet and others is "Can I sail in the ocean in a Cheap ( hopefully free), 20-30 something Old boat that needs $$$ to fix up, but I will do the work myself, with no experience". While this may not pertain to the Salty Dog Rally participates, one wonders of the experience, boat maintenance, and other factors involved here. Lets learn from this Rally, find out what works and what didn't. Let have a discussion based on facts not Armchair Sailing.
 
#156 · (Edited)
Bottom line, is if any boats were in the Gulf Stream in that kind of weather, boats will break without good seamanship, crews will get sick and injuries will happen. I just hope those that are Monday Night Armchair Sailing have been out in these kinds of seas and winds... Let have a discussion based on facts not Armchair Sailing.
These unappreciative Monday Night Armchair Sailors make me sick!:mad:

Here on Sailnet, they simply don't appreciate the amazing opportunity to worship at the feet of these Ocean Giants, amazing geniuses who are capable of fantastic feats of superhuman gallantry by actually SAILING IN THE OCEAN AWAY FROM LAND!!!

Anyone who can SAIL IN THE OCEAN AWAY FROM LAND deserves our everlasting respect and admiration! It is such an amazing act - I can't believe any human can actually do it!

By the way, this was no mere gale that surprised a bunch of unprepared geriatric picnic sailors on boat-show boats that were too big for them to handle, IT WAS A FULL BLOWN HURRICANE, capable of smashing boats instantly in the Gulfstream, rendering genuine real sailors into quivering, blood-puking, EPIRB-activating survivalists, you damn Monday Night Armchair Sailors!

Now, take some expensive, Blue-Water Sailing courses, buy a boat-show 40-footer, and have some respect for your superiors!:mad:
 
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