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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Help! My survey is done!...
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Thread: Help! My survey is done!... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-22-2007 07:12 PM
sailingdog Jimmyb116

$12000 CDN is not the same as $12000 US.

Artfuldodger- What morgan do you have??
03-22-2007 07:04 PM
theartfuldodger
cost of Boat your dream

well how much is a dream worth, kind of hard to put a price on, well I was there back in 2005 when I bought my Morgan, and even though knew she was a project, I still waited a week to by her 10,000 less, I learned later that one should look at half the price of asking and work from there, as I've found out most boats are hard to sell, don't hold the price against the boat, she just what's a new owner to take care of her, so step back look at the adventure of repairing her, the list is not bad at all, I think your lucky that's all she needs, I spent 90,000 on my Morgan and don't regret as she is my home

Artful
03-22-2007 06:22 PM
jimmyb116 $12'000.00 is around average in BC Canada and the nav lights confuse me if they are red and green and work they are good in bc
03-22-2007 05:55 PM
resdog $12,000. for a '76 saltwater Catalina 27 is way over priced. Take a look at all the Catalina 27's on the market, especially the mid 70's, they are all averaging well under $10,000 and there are a ton of them out there. If you really like it make a low ball offer. As my car salesman uncle always told me: If you aren't embarassed by your first offer, you've left money on the table.
03-19-2007 01:52 AM
sailingdog Kacper-

Buy an Alberg down in sunny California, and sail it up the coast.
03-19-2007 01:29 AM
Kacper Keelhaulin, thanks for that summary, I'll implement that strategy the next time I go looking.

Right now I have decided to save more cash for a more sea-worthy boat. I might end up buying a Catalina, who knows. I'm looking at the Alberg designs and I really like them, but there aint much of those in the Pacific Northwest.

I also like the Spencers, there's a beautiful 35' spencer here for sale, and some 31' Spencers.

Anyone own these before?

... if only you had the same leverage when getting married as you do when in the boat buying process


"Do you swear to serve and protect, subject to the results of a survey, a 3 month living trial and inspection of the merchandise?"


Kacper
03-18-2007 05:36 AM
sailingdog Good summary of the boat buying process Keelhaulin'.

When you are looking at a boat, it might be a good thing to talk to the other boat owners in the marina. They can often tell you what the real story behind the boat is—whether it was raced hard, sat at the dock and used for evening cocktails, etc...

Also, when you are looking at a boat, check inside the lockers, and other spaces that you don't normally look very closely at. Often, these areas can tell you whether the boat has normally been well taken care of or if the shiny, clean boat you are seeing has just been done for the sake of selling it. A shiny galley stove doesn't mean much if there's a good layer of grunge stuck under the stove. People often look and see how clean and well kept things are, and forget to look past the surface appearances.

If a lot of work has recently been done on the boat and they are selling... try to find out why the work was necessary.

When one of my crew was looking at a boat, it had had all new interior upholstery and cushions as well as some new electronics replaced about six months previous. What the owner didn't say, and talking to the other people at the marina revealed was that the boat had sunk at the dock the previous season because a through hull popped a hose. That was the primary reason for the refit. The surveyor found some interesting water lines behind some of the storage lockers. While the wiring looked fine, but I'm willing to bet that not too much further down the line it would have had some serious problems as well.

Don Casey's book Inspecting the Aging Sailboat is a bit more thorough than the brief outline he has in his repair book.
03-18-2007 05:03 AM
KeelHaulin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacper
When I get more serious in the summer I will be more than ready to make some good decisions.
First; let me say sorry to hear it did not work out. It sounds like the seller was overconfident what he thought his boat was worth.

One thing I want to mention is that if you are looking at boats that are being sold by a broker; you should have a broker on your side as well. It costs you absolutely nothing to have a broker doing the legwork (finding suitable boats and doing contract writeups) for you because the brokers split the seller's brokerage fee.

In addition, if you are looking at a boat that is advertised for a bit higher than the average market value you should be looking for a boat that has had very recent and expensive refits done. This would be things like new electrical, new standing rigging, new sails, newer electronics, recent blister repair/barrier coat (that is documented with pictures). That should be in addition to an expected clean survey and overall acceptability of the boat.

If it is a little rough looking around the edges that is OK just be sure that it is a solid boat and has not fallen into severe disrepair. Adjust your initial offer accordingly (either well below market for a boat that has not had refit/upgrades, or closer to market if other expensive work was done recently).

You can do many of the pre-purchase survey checks yourself to weed out the ones that your broker presents to you. Take your time looking at the boat; get a copy of Don Casey's book on sailboat repair and maintenance and have a checklist of things to look at while onboard. Schedule a second and 3'rd visit with the selling broker and take your time looking in all of the compartments and check as many things as practical before making your 1'st offer. Winter is a good time to look in areas where it rains because you can check for deck leaks much easier; and it is a slow season for sales (helps your negotiating power).

Make an initial offer that is well below what your best guess of the actual value is. You need some negotiating room; and there should be no insult. It might get rejected without a counter offer but there are lots of other boats if that happens. Your broker should not pressure you to offer more; you are the person spending the bucks. If he does find another broker. If you come to an agreement (subject to survey) then proceed to survey/sea-trial but remember that you still HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO BUY. Be sure that in the contract it is worded that you have the right to withdraw your offer without penalty if FOR ANY REASON the survey (or sea-trial) is unacceptable to you; this of course includes valuation (the primary reason for the survey). There should also be a clause in the contract that allows you to re-negoitate the price following the survey should both parties agree.

Be sure you resolve any issues with the surveyor's findings or comments BEFORE you finalize the purchase. If there is anything vauge, incorrect or erroneous you should immediately contact the surveyor and work out those issues. Don't talk to the broker until you have a survey that is complete to your satisfaction. You want a survey that describes the condition of the boat accurately and is not just a laundry list of things that need fixing; otherwise you will have to get a second survey or addendum to obtain insurance. The survey should have a section that lists maintenance findings, and a section that lists "Critical Findings" - those that would be considered a liability risk to your insurance carrier. The surveyor should also include a comment that states "this boat represents a favorable liability profile (subject to repair of the items listed in the Critical Findings)." If the surveyor does not provide this sort of statement; find one who does otherwise the survey may be useless for getting insurance. Obtain more than one copy of recent surveys from your surveyor of a comporable boat and review his format and findings.

HTH; good luck with your search!
03-18-2007 02:29 AM
JouvertSpirit But the broker still has to outlay time and expense to advertise and write contracts and such. A good broker should know about what a boat is going to survey out at and list it for just a little more than that. Oh well, I guess I'd never make it in sales.
03-18-2007 02:21 AM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by JouvertSpirit
Well I guess it's over. I'm surprised a brokerage would list the boat in the first place with such a delta on the value.
I'm not... the broker is usually paid a percentage of the selling price... higher the price the more they'll stand to make.

Of course a good, smart broker wouldn't do that, knowing that the boat is not likely to sell at all if the price is unreasonably high. But, like the used car field, you don't have to be good to be a boat broker.
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