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  Topic Review (Newest First)
3 Weeks Ago 11:03 AM
HMSVictory
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
In the US, every state is different, but even a derelict is someone else's property, so they define a due process for when anyone, including a municipality, can just take it. Personal property rights are a huge deal here. Often, all it takes is the slightest objection from the owner and a judge will delay the action. Not only is one presumed innocent, but a huge benefit of the doubt is provided before your property is taken, in most circumstances. If not a due process problem, the next issue is the expense of taking the vessel, and in some cases, the new obligation to now look after it, while the owner gets the right to redeem it.

In the end, it's a nightmare and most go untouched as a result.

Then, land lubbers, who grossly outnumber sailors, pass laws preventing anyone from anchoring their in the first place.
EDIT: the FWC has been around and a barge was hired to crush about 30 boats this season in one weekend all around the harbor. Summer crushing in anticipation of hurricanes likely soon, and there are more to go. Luckily for the owners, although it is a 1st degree misdemeanor to abandon a vessel in FL biscayne bay, (according to an FWC officer I talked to recently) and the people are criminally charged and brought to court if they don't come, they are only fined a measly 5K which is nothing for a complete salvage/removal job. On the other hand I know someone who was charged 25K for a 70 footer in fort lauderdale
03-16-2016 10:14 AM
SVAuspicious
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMSVictory View Post
The boat has a ticket on it dated months ago saying that if not removed in 30 days it would be towed or smashed at owners expense.
I agree with Minnewaska about the implications of personal property rights. A second important factor is funding. It is easier for politicians to pass laws than to make difficult budget decisions. That puts bureaucrats and administrators (which should not be considered bad words) in the position of having to make prioritization decisions on the basis of what funding they do have. In this case that means dealing with the actively sinking and leaking boats first. The sunk boats come next and then the floating ones.
03-16-2016 07:20 AM
Minnewaska
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMSVictory View Post
....The boat has a ticket on it dated months ago saying that if not removed in 30 days it would be towed or smashed at owners expense. But of course that hasn't happened yet. So I guess they are not that serious about those promises.....
In the US, every state is different, but even a derelict is someone else's property, so they define a due process for when anyone, including a municipality, can just take it. Personal property rights are a huge deal here. Often, all it takes is the slightest objection from the owner and a judge will delay the action. Not only is one presumed innocent, but a huge benefit of the doubt is provided before your property is taken, in most circumstances. If not a due process problem, the next issue is the expense of taking the vessel, and in some cases, the new obligation to now look after it, while the owner gets the right to redeem it.

In the end, it's a nightmare and most go untouched as a result.

Then, land lubbers, who grossly outnumber sailors, pass laws preventing anyone from anchoring their in the first place.
03-16-2016 12:09 AM
Capt Len
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

I paid my moorge for years while building by collecting dead batteries. But it was never worth my time to collect the submerged pb reef that surrounds many of the CG navigation towers. Guess it was easier to dump than pack when renewing .Attitudes may have changed somewhat ,eh?
03-15-2016 11:36 PM
HMSVictory
Quote:
Originally Posted by cshrimpt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel View Post
Yes ... there is a strong attitude against anyone trying to do things a different way to cut costs.
If the harbor master thinks it's a derelict, he will remove it at your expense.

If it breaks loose and damages another boat, you will be sued.

If it sinks and does any kind of real or perceived environmental damage, it will cost you at least $20K in fines and fees.

Is the risk worth it for a $300 junker?

-Shrimp
Serious question what does an absolutely destitutely poor drug addict have to lose from being Sued? I guess the government might take some action if you failed to pay your environmental finds that is if they could find you ... That classic adage comes to mind you can sue but good luck collecting


This man's only asset that I'm aware of was the broken loose boat that was bought for just a few hundred dollars. Before that he lived in a park for a few years. Not that he didn't know his way around boats he had lived and worked on them for 20 to 25 years
03-15-2016 09:52 PM
outbound
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

Seen batteries snorkeling so idontknow. Hear Pb oxides are pretty toxic.
03-15-2016 09:08 PM
HMSVictory Indeed, many boats are aground / beached / half sunk around the Miami harbors. I visited one last night actually. It has bronze winches on it and I was tempted to take them z but they are still someone's property it would seem. Somehow the prestigious local sailing club still affords the wreckage one of their insanely high demand mooring balls . If it was not on one I certainly would have taken the winches and probably many before me.The boat has a ticket on it dated months ago saying that if not removed in 30 days it would be towed or smashed at owners expense. But of course that hasn't happened yet. So I guess they are not that serious about those promises. Oil leakage I can see as a problem, but battery acids not so much. Of all the derelicts I've explored and helped clean up( admittedly less than a dozen) I've never once seen a battery. You see there is a natural solution out in the Miami harbors... People who need things come on a dark night and take them and batteries are at a premium. In a way those pesky anchorites are actually being of use scavenging off half sunken derelicts
03-15-2016 08:46 PM
outbound
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

It's pretty amazing how long derelict boats stick around. GRP just about forever. Even steel takes decades and decades. Sure when they sink they may serve as a nidus for marine growth and eventually a reef if climate change allows. But more often you see carribean shores polluted with these derelicts and inhabited by vermin. Guess Florida wants to prevent that.
Those that sink add innumerable toxins from their batteries, lubricants, and residual fuel. "owners" are held harmless as they are judgment proof given they commonly have no assets to go after or there is no line of provable ownership.
Here I think Florida is taking the wrong tactic. Interdiction should occur before sinking. Any boat that cannot travel let's say 20m under its own power is confiscated and impounded. Owner is given 30d to make it seaworthy, submit a plan to make it seaworthy ( follow up required) or arrange removal to inland facilities. After that it's owned by the state. State either repurposes it ( artificial reef, fill, road material etc.) but at least removes toxic materials. Of course if there is no proof of ownership state owns it right off.
Coastal home owners are happy. Mariners are happy. Environmentalists are happy. Fish are happy. In the end would cost the state less than the current rigamarole.
Lots of people take good care of their boats and surroundings with limited resources but no deficiency of hard work, pride and skill. This is not a class war thing. It's a human thing where adults should take responsibility for themselves.

Lastly would note many New England towns have rules inforced by their harbomasters requiring a certain type of mooring ( now commonly a screw) equipped with specified chain and pendant and serviced at specified intervals. Placement is controlled and restricted. Long term anchoring is not encouraged. Expect them to visit if you're there for what they think is too long. Any anchoring is limited to specific fields.
03-15-2016 08:38 PM
newt
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna_F View Post
Let's not be hasty.
Of course not, I'd rather be tasty. BBQ anyone?
03-15-2016 06:49 PM
Donna_F
Re: Anchoring for long term or in unprotected waters

Let's not be hasty.
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