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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger > Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...
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Thread: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-16-2014 11:54 PM
Lou452
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Incredible! So the hull did NOT sink and is in fact now recovered?
This is what I think is the mark of excellence the boat did not sink. This is a boats first job. A boat should always float. We are so smart and have such a wide array of material no boat should go to the bottom. The boat should be the life raft.
Good day, Lou
01-16-2014 10:58 PM
PCP
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Interesting vid...

Apparently, the keel is still in place, amazing...


Cheminées Poujoulat, le bateau qui ne voulait pas couler ! - YouTube
Not apparently, for sure.

Stamm dived under the boat (with the boat already on the port) and the keel and the bulb was there.
01-16-2014 10:58 PM
hellosailor
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Incredible! So the hull did NOT sink and is in fact now recovered?
01-16-2014 10:49 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Interesting vid...

Apparently, the keel is still in place, amazing...


01-11-2014 11:16 PM
Lou452
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The boat is already being towed. Probably already at port if everything went alright. I guess you did not follow the link I posted. On interesting sailboats Thread I posted a video with the French Navy marking the boat.
I have not looked the link for sometime. Amazing
Good Day. Lou
01-11-2014 11:15 PM
manatee
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"

{snip}

Like the Challenger disaster: There was nothing wrong with the design or engineering, but a whole crew died because someone forgot to say "Warning: Not for use below 50F !"
That turns out not to be the case. The Solid Rocket Booster (SRB) design was flawed from the beginning.

From Richard Feynman's report on the loss of Challenger and her crew:

"Finally, if we are to replace standard numerical probability usage with engineering judgment, why do we find such an enormous disparity between the management estimate and the judgment of the engineers? It would appear that, for whatever purpose, be it for internal or external consumption, the management of NASA exaggerates the reliability of its product, to the point of fantasy.

The history of the certification and Flight Readiness Reviews will not be repeated here. (See other part of Commission reports.) The phenomenon of accepting for flight, seals that had shown erosion and blow-by in previous flights, is very clear. The Challenger flight is an excellent example. There are several references to flights that had gone before. The acceptance and success of these flights is taken as evidence of safety. But erosion and blow-by are not what the design expected. They are warnings that something is wrong. The equipment is not operating as expected, and therefore there is a danger that it can operate with even wider deviations in this unexpected and not thoroughly understood way. The fact that this danger did not lead to a catastrophe before is no guarantee that it will not the next time, unless it is completely understood. When playing Russian roulette the fact that the first shot got off safely is little comfort for the next. The origin and consequences of the erosion and blow-by were not understood. They did not occur equally on all flights and all joints; sometimes more, and sometimes less. Why not sometime, when whatever conditions determined it were right, still more leading to catastrophe?"

Read his report here.
01-11-2014 10:28 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
" it's pretty difficult to simulate the conditions encountered between the Cape of Storms and Cape Horn in a "controlled" environment,"

Which in turn is why the conditions are simulated in a simulator or on a computer and not in some backyard test tank. Extensive computer modeling is where engineering starts theses day, and when you are talking about something like "How many impact load cycles of what magnitude can this frp layup take before the strands break?" that's donkey work. Easily done by the donkeys (the computers) and done very well for decades now by any number of engineering applications.
Uhhh, Juan Kouyoumdjian has designed the winning boat in the last THREE Volvo Races, or every edition of the race sailed on Volvo Open 70s... In the most recent VOR, half of the boats in the fleet were his... That all adds up to a LOT of 'real world' development and testing...

I seriously doubt he's been developing these boats in a 'backyard test tank', and I would guess he's probably had access to a computer for awhile, now... :-)


01-11-2014 09:58 PM
PCP
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"...

I'd be curious to know if we ever find out what happened there.

...
Now that the boat was recovered I believe that the causes will be found.

Regards

Paulo
01-11-2014 09:47 PM
hellosailor
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

Lou, a casual look only shows he sunk off the continental shelf in the Celtic Sea, and the depths there go past 5,000 meters. So depending on the exact location, no one may be interesting in spending the money to find it, much less to recover it.

Some online research might find you the GPS position where it was lost, which would give you the depth at that location, but then again the wreck would have angled away from there as it sank. So...you draw a bigger circle and then plan the expedition.
01-11-2014 09:36 PM
hellosailor
Re: Wow... Bernard Stamm's Open 60 "breaks in half" in the Western Approaches...

" it's pretty difficult to simulate the conditions encountered between the Cape of Storms and Cape Horn in a "controlled" environment,"
Which in turn is why the conditions are simulated in a simulator or on a computer and not in some backyard test tank. Extensive computer modeling is where engineering starts theses day, and when you are talking about something like "How many impact load cycles of what magnitude can this frp layup take before the strands break?" that's donkey work. Easily done by the donkeys (the computers) and done very well for decades now by any number of engineering applications.

What, do you think NASA builds rockets based on "Well, let's see if this one breaks up when we launch it." ? No, they run the numbers to see whether the structure can sustain the loads. If a nautical architect was designing an open-water extreme-condition racing hull based on anything without running the numbers first--he'd be a fool. And that industry isn't big enough to support fools.

More likely that boat had a flaw, from damage of one kind or another, OR it was specifically designed for a limited stress, which at some point was exceeded. The design and engineering process is pretty much a routine, and a routine that is proven to work until someone, at some point in the chain, makes a mistake.

I'd be curious to know if we ever find out what happened there.

Like the Challenger disaster: There was nothing wrong with the design or engineering, but a whole crew died because someone forgot to say "Warning: Not for use below 50F !"
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