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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.
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Topic Review (Newest First)
1 Day Ago 12:20 AM
smackdaddy
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Yes - the ACR will allow the start battery to get any current it needs.
Awesome. Thank you Miti.
1 Day Ago 12:11 AM
mitiempo
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

PS - In your set-up, would the positive side of the solar charger go into the positive busbar at the house bank? And, if so, how would you also get the solar charging over into the starter battery?
Yes - the ACR will allow the start battery to get any current it needs.
1 Day Ago 11:22 PM
smackdaddy
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
You assume incorrectly, that's why I didn't think MS was being overly dramatic.

Electrical systems are the cause of 55% of all fires, meaning they are not just the leading cause, but more likely than all others combined. Within the category of electrical system causes, DC shorts make up roughly 2/3rds of all electrical fires.

Next on the list is engine overheating, which is 24% of fires. Fuel leak is only 8%.

Why Boats Catch Fire - Seaworthy - BoatUS
I think we're probably talking past each other here.

What's in that report is essentially what I said in my post...that electrical fires are followed pretty closely by mechanical fires (such as engine overheating), fuel, etc. They are "right up there". So I understand the percentages, I was just saying that these things are at the top of the list...which they are.

In any case, that's not the point I was making regarding Maine's comment. So carry on.
1 Day Ago 05:40 PM
Don0190
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

In my time on a 20+ year old Navy submarine we have quite a few fires. They were 100% electrical and none were cables or connectors. They also 100% put themselves out once the breakers to whatever it was tripped and the "fire" went out. Meanwhile with all the holes in the boat for seawater there was only 1 minor case of flooding (wouldn't have been an issue if we hadn't been so deep at the time, which we weren't for long).
1 Day Ago 05:33 PM
Minnewaska
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
First, yes Minne - I fully understand that electrical problems are very often a leading cause of boat fires (I assume mechanical/fuel issues are right up there as well). .......
You assume incorrectly, that's why I didn't think MS was being overly dramatic.

Electrical systems are the cause of 55% of all fires, meaning they are not just the leading cause, but more likely than all others combined. Within the category of electrical system causes, DC shorts make up roughly 2/3rds of all electrical fires.

Next on the list is engine overheating, which is 24% of fires. Fuel leak is only 8%.

Why Boats Catch Fire - Seaworthy - BoatUS
2 Days Ago 01:26 PM
smackdaddy
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

First, yes Minne - I fully understand that electrical problems are very often a leading cause of boat fires (I assume mechanical/fuel issues are right up there as well). And these can definitely kill you. Then there are storms, failed seacocks, rudder and keel losses, getting run down by a ship, lightning strikes, falling overboard, etc, etc. So the point is not lost on me. But, again, it comes down to specifics, not dramatic generalities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Yes, it is a different can of worms. Starting from scratch instead of trying to fix a mess is easier. You have installed a battery monitor incorrectly and you still do not know where some wires go.
See, this is the kind of worm-can I'm talking about. I actually didn't install the battery monitor incorrectly. It was installed exactly the way the instructions said to install it.

What is incorrect, as I've found out in this thread, is all the other wiring and cabling that was already present (back to the can of worms issue). I didn't redo all of that when adding this monitor for three reasons:

1. The LinkPro instructions weren't nearly as clear as Maine's sketchy diagram on what all needed to move to that system side of the shunt. (He says on his site that this is a common problem he sees on a lot of boats and if you look at the instructions you can see why.)
2. That system has been working fine for a very long time and I didn't want to mess something up by ripping it apart and starting over without very clear instructions to follow...which leads to...
3. I didn't/don't have the expertise to spot such less-than-completely-obvious problems in the first place - which is why, though you may fully believe it, starting from scratch would not be a good idea for me.

Now, back to Minne and Maine's point above - if an inaccurate LinkPro is the outcome of this particular mistake, that's not a big deal. I have additional battery monitoring onboard. So, unless I'm mistaken, this is a NOT a life-threatening issue - which is my point above.

Most importantly, however, with the good specific feedback like I'm getting (Maine's above and yours below), I can now start squaring these things away.

Again, it's a learning process. And one I'm grateful to you guys for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
In steps:

With batteries in place wire the house bank in parallel. Fuse bank - MRBF ideally. Positive to bus then switch. Negative to battery side of monitor shunt. Load side of shunt to negative bus. All other negatives to this bus. One cable from this bus to engine - ideally starter negative.

Start battery positive to switch after MRBF fuse on post. Start negative to negative bus.

ACR - positive to house bank positive bus and other positive to start battery positive. Small negative from ACR to negative bus - fused.

Output from switch to starter, another to DC panel. Alternator output to positive house bus.

If you keep all wiring the same size - say 2/0 - the only fusing required is the MRBF's on each bank's positive post plus a lower amperage fuse at switch in cable to panel or you could fuse individually off the bus. Fusing in smaller wires - monitor cables, ACR negative - would be needed as well.

A small fuse panel can be added for 24/7 items such as bilge pumps. Wire positive from house bus and run negative from bus after shunt.

I wrote this quickly so may have missed something.

But after this, which would not take long, you would know where every wire goes and each connection would be done properly. It would be neat and there would not be any extra wires you don't know about. If there was a problem you would both know where to look and have little trouble figuring it out.

Currently you are not really learning a system but trying to understand a rats nest - never easy.
Thanks Miti. This really helps - the kind of instructions I need. I'll start working through it.

PS - In your set-up, would the positive side of the solar charger go into the positive busbar at the house bank? And, if so, how would you also get the solar charging over into the starter battery?
2 Days Ago 12:20 PM
mitiempo
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

I have investigated several boat electrical fires. It only takes one unfused wire and happens in seconds.
2 Days Ago 05:57 AM
Minnewaska
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Okay - let's not get overly dramatic here....
I'm sure MaineSail knows and I suspect you would know that electrical systems are the number one cause of boat fires. Greater than all other causes combined, in fact. I doubt they were all obvious death traps. In your photos, there are things that just seem to be a matter of asthetics, but many that are potential problems.

I support your right to do it your way, I'm just adding that I don't think he was being overly dramatic.
2 Days Ago 04:23 AM
zedboy
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Starting from scratch instead of trying to fix a mess is easier.
This.

I cringe when I see most marine wiring diagrams - WTH are they so complicated? Miti's setup is so simple my eight year old can understand it.
2 Days Ago 03:24 AM
casey1999
Re: 1989 Hunter 40 - A million questions.

Smack,
I think you have a 99.999 percent chance you'll be ok. Think of the many thousands of recreational and commercial boats throughout the world that ply the oceans daily without incident, that are wired much worse. Just keep an eye on things and inspect often. The chick that I bought my boat from single handed it around the world. Most things were not fused. The bow light was melted due to over current and short, old extension cords were used for wiring and household wire nuts were used for splicing. Took me three years to work it all out, and I sailed the boat during that time. That is just the electrical. Sea cocks had been plugged with galvanized iron pipe plugs and seacock handles were rusted off. Most hoses were dry rotted. But hey, the chick made it
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