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Mystery water in bilge in CAL-29

8K views 42 replies 27 participants last post by  captain jack 
#1 ·
Hey all,

Just back from a great trip out for an overnight anchorage (saw dolphins, whales, and more).

But I saw again an issue that I've been meaning to post about and pick your collective brains for clues.

I keep my CAL-29 on a mooring ball. Normally her bilges under the cabin floor are nice and dry. However, if I take her out sailing for a day or two (like this last trip) with lots of pitching and rolling and heel her over a lot, there's a couple of inches of water in the forward part of the bilge under the cabin sole at the end of the trip.

So I'm trying to think what it might be from. Here's my thoughts. What am I forgetting?

1. Shaft packing gland. On the CAL29, this would fill the bilge under the engine first, and if it got high enough, go over the baffles and forward into the bilges under the cabin sole. But this isn't the problem here. Monitored during use this trip (and others) and there's just the tiny bit that'd you'd expect. Not even regular drips, just a drop or two every few minutes. Bilge under the engine has some water in it, but no where near the top where it'd overflow into the forward bilge areas.

2. Icebox. Nope, it wasn't running and didn't have anything it it. It wasn't cold. The CAL29's icebox does drain to the bilge, but this can't be it.

3. Condensation from elsewhere. Maybe, but why only see it in the bilge after a long sail? Wouldn't I see that all the time?

4. Water over the bow and going down the chain locker? Maybe, but I don't remember any waves coming over the bow. I don't think this is it.

5. Rainwater leaking down from mast step? Nope, no rain on this trip. On the rare times it rains (in San Diego), as long as she stays on her ball her bilge stays dry even with the rain.

6. Shower drain? The CAL 29 shower drains into the bilge but I don't use it. No water leaking in the shower pan from anywhere that I can see or think of.

7. Something in the head system? Maybe, but the bilge doesn't stink like I think it would if it came from something in the head. Use the head on the mooring ball with no water in the bilge afterwards. Water only shows up after a sail.

What else could it be that only shows up after a rigorous sail?

-James
 
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#2 ·
Check valve in line from bilge pump to thru hull,,. Do sinks fill with water when heeling

Hey all,

Just back from a great trip out for an overnight anchorage (saw dolphins, whales, and more).

But I saw again an issue that I've been meaning to post about and pick your collective brains for clues.

I keep my CAL-29 on a mooring ball. Normally her bilges under the cabin floor are nice and dry. However, if I take her out sailing for a day or two (like this last trip) with lots of pitching and rolling and heel her over a lot, there's a couple of inches of water in the forward part of the bilge under the cabin sole at the end of the trip.

So I'm trying to think what it might be from. Here's my thoughts. What am I forgetting?

1. Shaft packing gland. On the CAL29, this would fill the bilge under the engine first, and if it got high enough, go over the baffles and forward into the bilges under the cabin sole. But this isn't the problem here. Monitored during use this trip (and others) and there's just the tiny bit that'd you'd expect. Not even regular drips, just a drop or two every few minutes. Bilge under the engine has some water in it, but no where near the top where it'd overflow into the forward bilge areas.

2. Icebox. Nope, it wasn't running and didn't have anything it it. It wasn't cold. The CAL29's icebox does drain to the bilge, but this can't be it.

3. Condensation from elsewhere. Maybe, but why only see it in the bilge after a long sail? Wouldn't I see that all the time?

4. Water over the bow and going down the chain locker? Maybe, but I don't remember any waves coming over the bow. I don't think this is it.

5. Rainwater leaking down from mast step? Nope, no rain on this trip. On the rare times it rains (in San Diego), as long as she stays on her ball her bilge stays dry even with the rain.

6. Shower drain? The CAL 29 shower drains into the bilge but I don't use it. No water leaking in the shower pan from anywhere that I can see or think of.

7. Something in the head system? Maybe, but the bilge doesn't stink like I think it would if it came from something in the head. Use the head on the mooring ball with no water in the bilge afterwards. Water only shows up after a sail.

What else could it be that only shows up after a rigorous sail?

-James
 
#3 ·
Leaking hull deck joint, about the only option left after you have excluded the other culprits. This is the only thing I can think of that would let water in while sailing hard but not at the mooring. I forget how this is put together on a cal 29, but at some point they all leak and on a 30 plus year old boat it is more likely than not.
 
#8 ·
I would look at the rudder tube gland. I think it will be similar to your stern tube gland. Underway water can be forced up and past the gland, it is one of those out of sight out of mind maintenance thing.
 
#9 ·
Jib tracks? Lifeline stanchion bases? Other deck fittings?

Here's a trick-
Buy some "diatomaceous earth" (silica powder) from your local hardware store, and a cheap rose bush duster. Puff just a little bit of this in your bilge to coat the sides. After a while, you should see trickles tracking through the powder that you can track back to the source.

Don't go nuts with the powder, but it won't hurt your pumps, it doesn't clump or paste when it gets wet.
 
#10 ·
Hey,

A few years ago I stated getting water in my bilge after sailing or motoring. Never while sitting at the mooring. It drove me crazy. After a few weeks I found the exhaust flange, where it exited the transom, was leaking. When the boat was sitting still the exhaust was above the water line. When motoring or sailing fast the flange would be submerged and allowed water in. I sealed it with caulk and that solved the problem.

So check for through hulls that are above the water line at rest and submerged when underway and good luck to you.

Barry
 
#11 ·
I noticed a similar problem to Barry's on my O'day 35 (also similar to Barry's :)).

The wet exhaust hose that ran from the mixing elbow to the waterlift muffler (one of the few hoses original to the boat) had a longitudinal crack in it where it met the muffler. It looked fine, until I removed it. I would get about ½ gallon every hour of motoring. This hose has since been replaced, and I have added a CO detector to the main cabin.
 
#15 ·
These are all good suggestions. The water tank does seem very likely - it has a vent in the top of it, of course, so having spillage when heeled or rolling is just about unavoidalbe - but you may well be hesitant to taste the bilge water. So, instead, drain most of the water from your tank, maybe filling a couple of gallon jugs to take with you next sail. If you still have water in the bilge afterwards, keep looking at the other suspects.
 
#17 ·
Thanks everyone for the thoughts! Good ideas for me to check. The fresh-water usage is definitely something that I do only on big sails so checking the tank for the cause and inspecting the lines from it to the pump to the sink will be some of the first things I check.

Draining it out and seeing if it returns after the next sail might be a good thing.

Keep the ideas coming!

To answer your question, it's an encapsulated keel. No keel bolts for me! :)
 
#19 ·
Your engine raw water system may have a non return valve vented loop type thing, Vetus make some and they are great however they require peorodic cleaning or they start to ooze water out the drain pipe into the engine bay.

One way to check that, and freshwater cooling system is to put empty plastic bottles under any drain pipes under or around the engine.

Tasting the water will not get you anywhere unless theres a LOT of water. A couple of gallons of fresh water sloshing around the bilge for aweekend will taste like salt, or worse.

Dont go ripping out deck fittings etc until you have done the normal stuff of lose hose clamps, vented loops, etc.


Mark
 
#21 ·
My 1974 Cal 29 has a vent in the fill cap of the water tanks. If they were close to full and you were sailing hard, water could squirt out of the cap into the bilge. If your front tank has a vent hose you might see if you can find it to be sure it hasn't dropped down low enough to leak when you're on that tack. My Cal also had a plastic fitting behind the hanging locker, above the water line, probably used as an air conditioner drain. There was no valve on this just a 3 ft. length of hose that had dropped down. When you sailed the boat hard mystery water would come in the upper bilge. Roam around on the outside of your boat and check for any mystery fittings at or above the water line.

You can easily check for a leaking hull joint since there is no liner on the Cal, just run your hand around on the hull after a hard sail and see if you find any wet areas.

If the water is just in the forward bilge then it's coming from the front somewhere. Could be coming down the anchor locker vent, chain plates or the head ports. The head ports go thru two layers of fiberglass, so water could leak in and just run down the outer layer. Look inside the medicine cabinet after a hard sail and the hanging locker.

Hope that helps,

Bill
 
#22 ·
The plot thickens...

There does seem to be an over-water discharge on the starboard side for the head sink drain that looks like it might benefit from some caulk around the edges. I'll do that soon.

But today, after not being down at the boat for a few weeks, there was no water at all in the forward bilge. That's not surprising since it usually only showed up after sailing. But there was about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of a brown slightly oily substance in the forward bilge area.

I have no idea what that could have been. Had a slightly oily smell, felt slightly oily on my fingers, but had the viscosity of water. Thought the extra teak oil bottle may have leaked but found no evidence that that was true (bottle was fine) and it didn't have the same smell.

I'm stumped about this. I can see it trailing from forward from under the shower drain but can't imagine at all what this might be. I searched my lockers for anything that might be leaking. No path from the engine area to the forward part of the bilge unless the after bilge is full, which it's not even close.

I'm still stumped and this is the first time I've found that stuff in my forward bilge.
 
#23 ·
Do you have a 'friend' with access to your boat?

Maybe this is all a plot to drive you mad!!;)

True story.. a friend of mine put in mucho time to minimize/eliminate rain water into the bilge via the mast.. and every time he thought he'd beat it, a couple of days later there's another 1/4 litre of water in the bilge. Drove him nuts until another friend fessed up that he'd been squirting a bit of water in there for the previous couple of months..

They laugh about it now, but at the time.......
 
#24 ·
If it had a very strong smell I would think rats are visiting. So it is probably water. It is picking up some rust, oily mud or dirt from the anchor locker or the transverse beam and that's where the brown color and oily feel is coming from.

Things to check - Chain Plates it could be leaking down the plywood, picking up some color and oil I redo these every year - bathroom hatches if the hatches were not replaced at some point, they are old style without drains, water collects in them and eventually leaks into the boat, down the side and into the bilge - anchor deck pipe check the cover that it is secure and around the base for leaks - toilet water supply, even when the thru hull is closed water lays in the hose. Water tank hoses and connections, just because the water is brown and oily doesn't mean that it wasn't clear to start with.

Good luck
 
#25 ·
Still not sure where it's coming from. Got an inspection mirror and flash light and looked over the baffle into the forward bilge. Barely can fit the mirror/light.

Can't find any evidence of draining into the bilge, but found a wet spot in the bottom of the bilge in the forward part (seen on the mirror).

Is it at all possible that it's seeping up from OUTSIDE the hull? Through the fiberglass? Like seeping THROUGH the hull?

That may be a dumb question, but I'm still learning. If that's true, then maybe it's more when I'm sailing and the keel is flexing the hull?

The CAL 29 doesn't have keel bolts.

It's probably been three years since she was painted. She's actually getting hauled this Wed. for a bottom clean/paint.

-Charts
 
#27 · (Edited)
Let me think :)

There are a bunch of through hulls on which the original install was pretty bad ,wood pads and other such stuff



The Strut is held in with plywood which rots and would allow the bolts to loosen and leak



Clean up around the sterntube as it was a part of the baot that can blister and leak



Wheel or tiller ? the wheel packing will only leak when sailing

With a tiller the shaft is solid and should NOT leak

The glass work on the keel is massive so lets hope it still is as mine has never shown so much as a minor stress crack and if you remove the cover you can see the entire area well

The hull deck joint is glassed form the inside and then has the rubber over it so you would really have to bury the rail to get water in

The chainplates can also really only leak in the rain as again you would need to submerge the boat to get them wet

ALSO how do you pump out the DEEP section of the bilge under the fiberglass motor bed as it is 24" ? deeper than the main bilge

It could hold 20 gallons easy :)

On my boat a hole was cut in the motor bed a I keep a my main bilge pump in the deep section with the second pump being up on the higher section under the floor cover in the cabin
 
#28 ·
The keel on the 2-29 has encapsulated ballast but it does not fill the entire cavity of the keel. There is an empty portion of the cavity at the extreme forward end of the keel (that is very hard to reach) that will continue to hold several gallons of water after the bilge has been "emptied", whether you realize it or not. If the yacht is pitching heavily, some of this will spill out forward and not all will drain back into the cavity. The foregoing can be exacerbated by the drain from the ice-box which exits from the bottom of the box, through a tube, into the forward portion of the bilge (unless that drain's been plugged). If you have any water in the box from melting ice, it will discharge into that area. On our (former) boat, we solved that by inserting a cork into the drain and using frozen plastic bottles of water rather than block ice to keep the box cold.

FWIW...
 
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