|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|04-01-2007 09:03 PM|
|T34C||Waymar- I agree with you in concept, but the idea was that you were suppost to race with a standard factory boat. What they did was to take a factory boat, make a bunch of modifications to compete unfairly in an easiler class and then say, "Oh, well, we will make those modifications at the factory if someone wants them."|
|03-30-2007 11:51 PM|
Giu, you are the reference...
I've never raced...yet...and my knowledge is extremely limited and superficial ... but I would think that hull shape, weight and other design features have some importance to this discussion. For this Dufour 40, they did start with the standard hull including the construction materials and workmanship (yes?). They changed the keel (fair enough). Changed the mast and sails (you have to for this kind of race). lightened the boat....It makes sense if you have the $$$ and want to race with a specific boat to boost "the brand image". Add sailing skills and a little luck and you may have a winning combination. As was mentioned by 'dog' and "sailaway', its part of marketing. Just like BMW, FIAT or HONDA in F1. This is to me a legitimate attempt and activity for a manufacturer. (this is true in all sports. Do you think World Cup Downhill skiers use the same skis and boots we buy in the ski shops?). OK so they were not as publicly forthcoming in terms of the modifications as they should have been. Is this a surprise?
On a related note, I don't know if I'll ever begin to understand (or have the patience for) things like class rules etc. There is wayyyy too much history and attention to detail for me to get a handle on it. I find it extremely confusing in trying to compare boats given the extent of the parameters. like comparing apples with (not even oranges) more like with a ham sandwich or a shoe.... But I'm learning even though I'm not sure I want to....)
|03-30-2007 11:46 PM|
Originally Posted by sailaway21
|03-30-2007 10:52 PM|
I would say the Portagee kept it pretty well together there, for the most part, and I commend him for it. He obviously feels that the manufacturer is playing a little fast and loose with certain details; the kind of details usually printed in very small type at the bottom of the screen in a TV commercial.
It is perhaps indicative of the sailboat market that they are able to publish such things and expect not to get called on it. They do us, and themselves, no favors by doing so. Giulietta makes a pretty convincing case. I suppose I will now have to pay more attention to his posts on Catalinas, a thought that pains me!
The Dog's reference to NASCAR, and Giu's to Formula 1, are apt. You won't find an automaker claiming that the car on the showroom floor is what you saw on TV last Sunday. They are more than happy that it looks just like it, and want you to feel like Jeff Gordon driving it, but are upfront about such details as Mr. Gordon's car is rear wheel drive and the production car is front wheel drive, and there is not an options list where you can check off rear wheel drive and an extra 500 hp.
Oftentimes the internet provides more heat than light; in this case I would think that a fair amount of light has been shed and we are lucky to have a knowledgable poster such as Giu. In the interest of full illumination, I would think it entirely appropriate for Dufour, or one of their dealers, to respond to any points they feel to be unfair.
And that's about all the pleasantness I am inclined to send the Portagee's way for one day.
|03-30-2007 10:05 PM|
Part of the problem with boats that race is that many are modified far from the "stock" configurations, that are generally bought for cruising. While some boat manufacturers may offer different configurations, the "racing" ones may be very different from those sold to the cruising market.
A good analogy is that it is kind of like NASCAR.... which uses "stock" cars... but the cars are nothing like the ones sold to the public. On the NASCAR "stock" cars—there are no stereos, no automatic transmissions, no doors that open—they're welded shut, one on seat, a rollcage... yet it is called a "stock" car. You can't go in to a car dealership and order one like this.
|03-30-2007 08:57 PM|
|werebeagle||From everything I've seen here, I'll have to agree with Giu. He's definitely the one who's opinion on racing matters I'd give the most weight here.|
|03-30-2007 08:37 PM|
|sailortjk1||Looks like a heavily modified boat to me, Even I can see that.|
|03-30-2007 07:15 PM|
Giu...doesn't look like you need any help here. The pictures and your knowledge tell the story as it is. You may have to relinguish your "king" ass full of crap title if you keep this up!
|03-30-2007 06:27 PM|
Originally Posted by Waymar83
I sailed the "standard" version of the 40 several times (was sold to Spain and I helped the Spanish guy "learn the boat, and sold him 3 mast steps I had bought in West marine) and a 44 performance here, that is doing the IRC championship.
The difference between the performance and the regular dufour is 1 knot no more no less.
I raced against the 44 (because I think its not fare to race against smaller hulls unlike many ), and as I said in my first post...
"to give you an idea, last August, I was dead downwind without spi, just genoa (on pole) and main, racing against a 44 Performance with spi, and racing crew, and I passed him, wining over 18 minutes in a 7 mile run!!"
That is 2,5 minutes per mile!!! without spi....he had spi....
I could pass him to leeward and still sail around them...and that's the 44 performance
If I pick a fight, I don't choose a smaller guy..its not fare
|03-30-2007 06:02 PM|
Yeah but the real question is: Giu did YOU race her....?........
I looked at the link Giu posted earlier with the boat specs and some photos(Tidewater Marina). Damn fine looking boat!!!!
|This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.|