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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#5,821 · (Edited)
I would not look a try to understand that based only based on functionality in what regards sail performance since that hull is a compromise (a good one) that has also to do with the building material and building technique (plywood and epoxy). Here a better picture of the forward section:



This is a hull based on open boats concept and with a large transom. I would risk to say that in this case the main objective is to deflect spray (keeping the deck free of water) and create some lift on the bow area when the boat is planing downwind (the boat is designed to plan at something like 16/20K downwind).

Bur for a better analyse of this type of hulls the best is to look to the best that is done at the moment, the Pogo40 S3 designed by Verdier. It is a race boat, very light and therefore the hull is less deep but we can see that the chines also begin quite forward:









It seems to me that the finality is the same and in this case also connected with the big asymmetry of this hull while sailing upwind. Probably that chine so forward is studied also to give directional stability to the boat and create a "groove" at the more efficient angle of heel when the boat is sailing upwind.

These boats are solo boats and therefore designed to be sailed on autopilot at high speed and near the limit and anything that can contribute to an easier boat to sail and that doesn't affect performance in a significant way is welcome and can be a performance advantage.

I think you are going to like this video:



This is an Akilaria 950, a race solo boat that is at midway between a mini racer and a Class40. The guy filmed the underbody while the boat is sailing upwind. We can see that almost half of the hull bottom is out of the water (with a low heeling angle) and that the immersed part is a very narrow one even if the boat has a huge beam. Pity he had not done the same at the bow:)

regards

Paulo
 
#5,820 ·
HMMMMMMMMMM
get my copy of "sailing" today, and mr bp and paulo are arguing over one of the reviewed boats.....well, maybe not arguing, but ea saying something different, using the same words...........

Nice review of the fareast and sf3600 in the recent issue Bob! now if I could afford the 3600, or the 349........Id be a happy camper. THen again, I brought home a "Showboat" rag from work......spouse says something to effect these boats are in a different league.......a mere 14-15Mil US$ for one of the sailboats listed.....mid 100' arena......hmmmmmmm

Marty
 
#5,822 · (Edited)
Bavaria Easy 9.7...easy for 49 950 €.

...
Nice review of the fareast and sf3600 in the recent issue Bob! now if I could afford the 3600, or the 349........Id be a happy camper. THen again, I brought home a "Showboat" rag from work......spouse says something to effect these boats are in a different league.......a mere 14-15Mil US$ for one of the sailboats listed.....mid 100' arena......hmmmmmmm

Marty
Marty the 3600 is more expensive than the 349 and it is a top racer with a quite naked interior, but the 349 is just what you want trust me. I saw the boat in Dusseldorf and I thought in you. Probably you have pissed the Jeanneau guys so much about having a big head on a small boat with separated shower and all that they have made it just for you:D

It seemed a great boat to me, way better than the 379 and as good as the 409 in what regards design with just a little snag. I will post about it soon.

But let me tell you that if you don't have the money for it makes not sense to wait for years but more sense in buying the "new" Bavaria Easy 9.7:D, a good boat that now costs here 49 950 €:eek: including sails.

"Daysailer, Weekender or Fun Cruiser, whatever you may call the BAVARIA EASY 9.7, she concentrates only upon the essentials. Her open stern, the spacious cockpit and the tidy deck layout make the handling of the BAVARIA EASY 9.7 simple for single or double handed crews precisely and efficient, just easy. The helmsman can comfortably reach the winches for the genoa which makes manoeuvring become an easy game.

Below decks the spacious atmosphere feels like a 37-foot yacht. A wide and light flooded saloon gives a loft feel with open views. Big bunks in the stern and bow, a coffee table in the saloon, a small galley for tasty snacks occasionally and an easy-care bathroom unit which is part of the basic setup make it easy for either on a long or only short week-end trip.





An impressive base price for the BAVARIA EASY 9.7 of only 49,950 Euros excluding tax. The Easy Living package is also available for 6,590 Euros excluding taxes and includes additional practical equipment. Besides the cockpit table, a transom shower is also fitted in the cockpit. A fridge, holding tank, a 240v shore power connection along with a hot shower in the bathroom nicely round up the Easy Living package. "


Bavaria Yachtbau: BAVARIA EASY 9.7 ? 49.950,- ? excluding tax ? That?s why I?m easy!

The boat is a Bavaria answer to the Hanse Varianta series and it is quite interesting, a kind of Bavaria 33 (Farr designed) reduced to the essentials, but lighter and therefore faster.

you guys keep saying that new boats are expensive...well, this one (or the Varianta 37) are not and are also great sailing boats. The Bavaria 33 was already a lot of boat for the money (for more 20 000 euros) now the price of the new version is just an EASY one:)

Here a very nice comparative test between the Bavaria 33 and the Hanse 345

Movie:

Bavaria Cruiser 33 gegen Hanse 345 - Yacht TV - Segel Videos von Europas größtem Yacht Magazin





A boat test:

http://www.farrdesign.com/reviews/675m_Cruiser33_Sailing_Today_Feb2013.pdf

In fact I like more the new version: It is lighter, it has not that big swimming platform, featuring an open transom (that I find more attractive) and has not that strange system with the mainsheet line passing trough the top of the cockpit table. The table is out and the mainsail line goes to the cockpit deck were it will be easy to add a traveler.

I don't have a fixed cockpit table on my boat and find out that a removable small teak garden table does very well the job for a fraction of the price and leaving the cockpit uncluttered when stored.

Regards

Paulo
 
#5,823 · (Edited)
European boat of the year 2014: Contest 42cs

The last boat (but not least) that won a award was the Contest 42 Cs and I cannot be happier with the choice, firstly because I am sure it is a great boat and secondly because it marks the return of Contest to the "affordable" market.

Contest is still today one of the cruisers that is more searched in Europe as an old boat in the used market. The boats, then designed by Dick Zaal, had a very good and deserved reputation in what regards quality and seaworthiness, only comparable today with Halberg Rassy. Then they changed to the big yacht market and stopped to make "small" yachts, being the smaller in the line a 45 footer and are more known by big yachts (bigger than 50ft) that very few can afford.

The 42 CS, a Georg Nissen design, like the others, seems to point to a return to his first market, the one of smaller sailboats. Not that the 42 is an inexpensive boat, probably the prices are similar to the ones of Halberg Rassy, but the quality is not inferior.

This one, with the Saphire 27 were the two boats that deserved a consensual opinion as being the best in their class. It is very impressive the global consensus about the fell, quality and sailing performance of this boat.

I would say that if someone is looking for a high quality cruiser 42/44ft boat, like the Halberg Rassy, Malo or XC, it should also have a good look at this one: I don't believe so many knowlegeable testers can be wrong in what they say about this boat and all say the same: A superyacht feel and quality with a very good performance. Impressive!!!





The British from Yachting World:

Once again on this category many interesting and good quality boats, with the candidates showing very different interpretations of the luxury concept. ..The Dutch presented a rather modest oversized family yacht that knows how to shine consistently. And they have managed to maintain their typical brand benchmark in what regards seaworthiness and quality construction. This give to it the aura of their much larger semi-custom vessels. The 42 CS provides nimble sailing performance, a variety of expansion options, a protected cockpit and a well-styled interior. Everything about it exudes class.

The Dutch from Waterkampioen :

This is a new direction for Contest Yacht. Old Contest still can be seen in around with a high quality design and built quality. This one is a boat from 2014, but with a pedigree of nearly half a century of Contest yachts. A very spacious and luxurious interior for a 42-foot boat. A very nicely designed cockpit. A stunning cabin roof in combination with an amazing deck. Regarding this size and this segment this boat is really something new. All this with a very high standard of build quality.

The Norwegians from Seilas:

From the interior the contest looks like a 50 fter, but is only 42 feet long. The standing height with well over two meters, the large windows and bright interiors give the boat a "wow" feeling. It sails surprisingly well and looks beautiful on the water. The Contest 42 CS will be the new benchmark in the lower size of the luxury yacht segment.

The Swiss from Marina.ch :

With its size, the Contest is at the lower end of this group and shows that luxury is not just a matter of size. …even among the larger competitors … the contest offers superyacht feeling on 42 feet sized boat.

The Italians from Fare Vela:

The contest is an elegant semi-custom approach to a sport-cruiser with the aim to please two audiences: those who wants performance, as well as want comfort for the family. They have achieved both goals. The contest offers several cockpit and rigging layouts with which you can adjust the boat individually. .. The cockpit looks very tidy and well suited for sailing. The rear cockpit is well protected ..At sea, the CS 42 is powerful, and sometimes you forget you are sailing on a relatively heavy cruiser.

The Austrians from Yacht Revue :

A truly stunning boat in this category, a variable cockpit concept with two control wheels, good sailing performance, modern design, different layouts below deck, very good build quality and a sensitive control system.

The Danish from BadNyt:

An impressive hull number 1 was tested in Southampton. Except for a few a few blemishes, the finish was overall excellent and the boat exudes luxury, not only from a distance, but also at a closer look. It works well and proved itself as serious sailing yacht. It has "only" 42 feet, but on board it feels much larger. Very luminous due to various "windows", it is pure pleasure to use the salon in port or at sea.

The Swedes from Segling :

Great design, the highest level of construction quality combined with outstanding performance and excellent maneuverability characterize these Dutch wonder. Despite being an aft cockpit boat you feel safely protected on long passages. The illumination system with the touch screen contributes to the ultra-modern impression.

The French from Voile and Voiliers:

The contest won the award not only because of its high build quality and outstanding finishes of but because it is also a boat on which you dream of blue water trips done without the need of a professional crew. We were very impressed with the quality, thoughtful Deck equipment: a sailboat easy to sail and easy to trim, with real comfort for the crew.

The Spanish from Nautica & Yates:

High quality, luxury and excellent craftsmanship in an aft cockpit boat, which is rather unusual on a brand specialized in center cockpit boats. Three very well thought cockpit layouts are aimed at three different types of owners and sailors. Good looks and excellent sailing characteristics complete the package.

The Deutch from Yacht.de:

The Contest 42 CS is the smallest of the five fabulous candidates in the luxury category and yet feels and sails the a maxi-yacht, only more compact and much easier to handle. The cockpit rigging provides plenty of options being this more of a semi-custom than a series yacht. Great looks and fine craft work appear here as a matter of course. If one is willing to spend for a fully equipped boat over 500,000 Euros, you will hardly find better. Choosing for a true connoisseur!
 
#5,824 · (Edited)
Elan 320

One of the boats that had impress me at Dusseldorf was the Elan 320. Alright, it is a 310 MKII but what the hell, the 310 was a great boat and when you improve a great boat, you got an even better boat and that's what the 320 is.

Regarding cruising the boat is perfect for a family with kids, even two couples will be alright for some time. The boat has a great galley, a big freezer and a big head with a space for wet jackets. Lots of storage space on a big cockpit locker. Great performance cruiser for the size.

The 310 was a boat that could do also well racing, solo or crewed. The 320 will be able to do better since it is slightly lighter with the same ballast. Well I would have liked a bit more ballast and a bit lighter but we cannot have all things: that would make the boat substantially more expensive...and one of the things that make interesting is the price;)

Technical specifications:

Length Overall 9.55 m
Hull Length 9.25 m
Length at waterline 8.71 m
Beam 3.22 m
Draft 2.15m / 1.90m / 1.50m
Displacement 3690 kg
Ballast 900kg / 1050kg / 1060kg
Water capacity 140 litres
Fuel capacity 45 litres
Engine 18 HP
Mainsail 30.15 m²
Jib 23.47 m²
Gennaker 75 m²

Boat design category CE A
Design Rob Humphreys Yacht Design
& Elan Design Team

price: 92 810 EUR including German VAT (19%), but without sails.

























Before someone starts to say that two wheels makes no sense on a small boat let me say that a tiller is optional. I would prefer a tiller but it seems that the two wheels can have advantages in what regards crewed racing.

This is the 310. The 320 is just slightly faster:)



 
#5,825 ·
Paulo,

I can probably get a 349 cheaper than a Varanta. As it will cost me $20K or so US to get the boat across the atlantic, then across NA. Where as I only have to get a 349 across NA, as I am recalling them building it in the joint South Carolina plant on the east coast. OR hopefully they will be. Otherwise at $120K for a base boat, I would be surprised one can get a boat with that level of trim etc for that base of a cost here any how.

But with a spouse losing some 50K a year since 08 in the reality market, new boats, much less barely affording a place to live is not happening. House is for sale, hopefully it will sell before the bank forecloses, boat may be soon also. This depression over here has not been good to us for many reasons shapes and forms.

Marty
 
#5,829 ·
Paulo,

I can probably get a 349 cheaper than a Varanta. As it will cost me $20K or so US to get the boat across the atlantic, then across NA. Where as I only have to get a 349 across NA, as I am recalling them building it in the joint South Carolina plant on the east coast. OR hopefully they will be. Otherwise at $120K for a base boat, I would be surprised one can get a boat with that level of trim etc for that base of a cost here any how.

But with a spouse losing some 50K a year since 08 in the reality market, new boats, much less barely affording a place to live is not happening. House is for sale, hopefully it will sell before the bank forecloses, boat may be soon also. This depression over here has not been good to us for many reasons shapes and forms.

Marty
Hei Marty,

Marty really sorry to know about your troubles. If it serves you of any consolation in Portugal we are also having a bad time. Me and my wive I retired early with a big cut on the pensions preferring to have time to money but what we did not expect was that our pensions to be cut after being granted. They went down as much as 25% and I was counting on the Architecture work (the pension is from teaching work) but that has also been down also with very few people buying new houses and with lots of older houses for sale cheaply. Not really a problem for us because we have everything paid own the house and the boat but life as to be more modest. Only now things start to look better in what regards the country but it will take years to go back to normality.

Back to sailing, I was mot talking about the Varianta but about the Bavaria 9.7. The base price there for a Bavaria 33 is 148 200 USD. The base price for the 9.7 should be about 120 000 USD, something like that. I believe it will be a bit cheaper than the jeanneau, but the Jeanneau 349 is a better boat. The price you give for the Jeanneau 349 is considerably lower than what the boat costs in Europe.

On boat prices a lot depends on local policies, factory interest, dealer cut and price of equipment but if that Bavaria cannot be sold at least for less USD 20 000 less than the Jeanneau 349 it would not be a good deal. I will keep an eye on that out of curiosity.

Regards

Paulo
 
#5,826 ·
Complete novice at all of this if asked question would probably get brushed aside.
I will ask just in case I could be wrong.
Wind power is good thing.
What is with this heated debate about different shape of sailboats?
Some are narow some are wide. Narow is slow, wide is fast. What is safe, what is not for ocean travel?
 
#5,827 ·
Wide (and flat)
- is slow in low winds
- is slower upwind (and usually isn't able to point as high as narrow boats)
- able to plan downwind (and then way faster)
- is more stable in what regards heel
- has more space inside

Narrow
- is less harsh in wave movement
- has less wetted surface and therefore faster in the light
- points higher and faster
- heels a lot

If you concider ocean traveling with the tradewinds (most of the time downwind) and do not care of a light and simple interior, the wide french performance-cruisers are your choice. If you are going mainly upwind and looking for a traditional wodden interior you might look for a more traditional boat.

In neither case you should take a fat (but not wide&flat) cruiser like a Bavaria or a Beneteau: These are made for living, not for sailing...
 
#5,833 ·
Paulo, The Jeanneau has a base price of 120K US$. So if the Bavaria is teh same, I am sure some of the lack of difference is getting the boat transported from Germany to to the US shores. From that standpoint, the 349 is the better deal $$ wise here.

I am sure I would end up at about 150-170, as I would probably add the performance pkg to name a few things, along with some electronics, initial epoxy coat the bottom and bottom paint. Then some of the dealers add things like a commission kit, Anchor, fenders, pfds etc.

Marty
 
#5,836 ·
Alliage yachts

Long go the days where Alliage were one of my preferred aluminum 41ft sailboat. The brand had abandoned the smaller cruising market and today his smaller boat has 45fts but the really are pointing tho bigger models.

They have two ranges, one with non ballasted centerboarders (like OVNI; Boreal or Allures) and another one that they call Azzuro, with a lifting keel. All the boats are beautiful and well designed by Berret Racoupeau, kind of "chic" voyage boat, but not less effective. I still like them a lot even if regret they finish making smaller boats:

Who would say this baby has already 14 year's old:



The 41 had already a two rudder set up.

Have a look at the Alliage 53



and to their two lines (very nice boats):

Azzuro 53 Voiliers De Voyage Aluminium De La Gamme Azzuro

Today they belong to the Alubat group, the ones that make OVNI and its their "luxury" brand. These ones are supposed to be "yachts" already while the OVNI are just sailboats:D
 
#5,859 ·
New, New 24 hours absolute solo sailing record

and it goes for a sailor on its 1st year on multihull at top level, Armel Le Cléac'h on Banque Populaire with an average of 28.2K:eek: and 677nm.

...
and again, Le Cléac'h unstoppable, beat his brand new 24 hour absolute solo record doing 682 nautical miles in 24 hours with an average of 28.4k. Incredible!!!!!:eek: What a bullet!!.
 
#5,841 · (Edited)
Salona 33 IBC

One of the most beautiful boats on Dusseldorf was a small one, a Salona 33IBC, the top cruising-racing version of Salona and racing is only because the boat can do very well in ORC because the interior exudes class and certainly will be very comfortable for cruising (2 cabin version with a big and deep cockpit locker).

Never had saw a IBC version and I have to say that I was impressed more than with the performance aspects with the quality of finish: Almost luxurious.

The boat comes normally with a torpedo keel but on its top performance version it has a keel for IRC and another one to ORC. It seems that this strange one (it is just a big foil) is maximized for IRC. The keel is a composite one, with a steel structure and the bottom in lead. It was designed by Ker so I am sure it is efficient. It is an epoxy vacuum infused hull with carbon spars, carbon bulkheads and lots of carbon parts.

They don't give the weight of the IBC version but it will be certainly several hundreds kg lighter than the standard version that weights 4950kg.

And some great news regarding US sailors: Salona is back to the US. I think it was Edward that had already posted about that, well he was right and it seems that the new importer is trying hard since on the Miami boat show will be 3 boats. The 33, a 44 and most of all a 38 IBC version. Probably that means that some of those boats, specially the IBC version are already sold and as it is a top version probably it will be raced. I hope it goes to the hands of a good team. That boat had already showed a lot of potential.

























 
#5,845 ·
I agree. The good thing is that is not the standard keel that is the more efficient one and gives more RM, an elongated torpedo one. It is not the boat that is wrong but the ratting system.

It is ridiculous to have three different keels, one for IRC, other for ORCI and another for offshore races or general uses as it is stupid that the more efficient one is the standard one and not the racing ones:rolleyes:

It is not the only boat with several keels. top racers have to have them. It happens the same with the Archambault or JPK: several keels, each one for a given rating system and on the A boats it is even worse since the standard keel is not the torpedo one but one without bulb, like the one on that Salona.

They talked into merging the two rating systems but the installed interests seem too big. ORCI has made steps in the right direction, working with the main racing NA and contrary to IRC is an open formula.

Regards

Paulo
 
#5,846 · (Edited)
Sirius 40DS

The Sirius started to be a small German family shipyard (it still is) that designed and built their own boats. The finish and built was truly outstanding as well as the interior concepts but the hulls were not designed by a top Na and that showed in performance. All that changed some years ago and now they work with Marc-Oliver von Ahlen, a talented NA that we had spoken here about the new SQ25, posted by Robelz, one of the most interesting pocket cruisers around.

Yachtdesign v.Ahlen

Now the boats have not only incredibly interiors as they sail well, offering all possible keel configurations.

It is not only me that find them fantastic. The press said about the 35DS:

"Is this the best boat ever built?" "Perfection in 35 feet." "…most impressive cruiser we've ever tested." "I am convinced that I have met the perfect cruiser." "…one of the most painstakingly designed and built semi-custom yachts in the world…" "The deck saloon principle knows no better exponent." "It's the highest score we've ever awarded, by some distance, and it reflects the wealth of ideas, craftsmanship and pride built into this extraordinary yacht .... As a custom-built, luxury cruising yacht, you'd struggle to match her. 93 out of 100 Points!"
"... 5-star ambience." "... a miracle of space." "The central cabin… if I could give 11/10 scores, I would." "the most salubrious heads we've ever seen… looks like it belongs in the "The Ritz"." "…as individual and exiting as a mega yacht."


Before you jump to buy one let me tell you that the price is accordingly with the quality and that means very high;) They sell boats to everywhere in the world, to the ones that want a small boat but maximum comfort and build quality and have the money for it.

Their 38 was the only one in the line still "in house" designed and it is going to re replaced by a 40ft designed by Marc-Oliver. It seems that this one will even have a better performance since it has a "performance" version. When I am old enough I want one of these, that's for sure;)

The dimensions:

LOA 11.99 m....LWL 11.17 m.....Beam (Hull) 4.00 m ..Draft 2.10/2.00 m/ 1.75m / 1.50 m m....Twin keel 1.40 m....Swing keel 1.00 - 2.40m

Ballast approx. 3.40 t ....Weight approx.10.5/11.60 t.....Mast height above water 18.50 m

Mainsail 45.3 m2...Self-tacking jib.. 32.2 m2...Genoa I 60.4 m2 Spi 140.0 m2....Furling Gennaker 95.0 m2..Furling Drifter 75.0 m2

Performance rigg with 20% more sail area.

Normally they have a cutter rig so they will carry the genoa and the jib at all times and that means on the performance version an upwind sail area of about 126m2 and that for 10.5T is not bad, I would say that is going to be a pretty fast cruiser, if one chose the performance version. Have a look:











Just to have a feeling about what I am talking about have a look at the 35ds interior and just imagine it a lot bigger.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Cockpit/Saloon | 35 DS Cockpit/Saloon

Sirius-Werft Plön | Saloon | 35 DS Saloon

Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin/Head/Shower | 35 DS Owner´s cabin/Head/Shower

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin/Head | 35 DS Forecabin/Head

Sirius-Werft Plön | Technic Room | 35 DS Technic Room
 
#5,849 ·
A Drifter is a lightweight nylon No. 1 genoa and it is mostly a cruising sail while the code 0 was developed for solo racers and it is a bigger sail. They are used for the same range of wind (till 15K) and normally used from 45º to 90 degrees. The drifter polled out can also be used for downwind sailing.

I am pretty sure there isn't even a bulb-option for the A35. Astounding that the A35 anyway is able to hold the JPK 1010's speed...
Yes there is a torpedo keel. They use it for instance on the Transquadra.

Regards

Paulo
 
#5,851 ·
The 3 packages for the Archie A13 are defined:

IRC Racer pack

Good finish grade for bulkheads, hull and deck in the square
Table
Seatbacks
Chart house furniture
Hull portholes
Fridge

IRC Comfort Racer pack

IRC Racer pack
Wood finish and spots in the square
Oven
Kitchen Cupboard

Cruising Pack on demand

IRC Comfort Racer pack
Deck porthole
Shower, Hot water
Full settings for three cabins, including beds and furniture
Full size kitchen on starboard side
Additional seat between kitchen and kitchen
 
This post has been deleted
#5,858 · (Edited)
Class 9.50

I believe I never talked here about this class, that till now has been a bit of a flop even if the boats are very interesting and besides being a very interesting platform for a performance cruiser.

"Since 2008, there are some boats on the water that are not Mini 650, that are smaller than 40class racers, the Class 9.50.

The class was born in 2007. The first boats were launched quickly, the 950 Akilaria designed by Marc Lombard and built by the shipyard "Mc Tec", the Tip Top 950 designed by Sam Manuard and built by "Naval Force 3" and finished by Sails All Purpose, the St Mandrier and 950 Fox designed by Charles Bertrand.

After years of sailing and testing, the 950 class racers are unanimously considered a lively and very seaworthy boat, with maximum fun for a minimum budget.

Today, CLASSE950 has 14 boats ready to race, 3 boats will be launched soon."


Classe 9.50

But the class never really took off and the races are mostly IRC races or races with the minis. Don't know why the class never picked up and certainly these are not boats competitive in IRC races. These are solo racers designed for transats and downwind sailing but they don't have any transat on their calendar. Why not make them part of the mini transat as a separated class?

Anyway an interesting boat, far more easy to sail than a class 40, faster and more seaworthy than a mini racer. Some movies:









 
#5,863 ·
Re: Class 9.50

...
Classe 9.50

But the class never really took off and the races are mostly IRC races or races with the minis. Don't know why the class never picked up ...
if this is the official site, there is no wonder that it never picked up...
a .com domain and only available in french?
come on - they cannot be serious or do the french really still think, that french is an international language everybody HAS to speak? :rolleyes:
 
#5,861 · (Edited)
"On Monday afternoon, at precisely 3:57pm, Lionel Lemonchois manually triggered the distress beacon of his 80-foot maxi trimaran Prince de Bretagne.

He had started his 11th day at sea, trying to break the Mauricienne record, from Port-Louis in Brittany to Port-Louis, the capital of Mauritius. When the beacon was triggered the trimaran was approximately 800 miles off the Brazilian coast, at the latitude of Rio de Janeiro, sailing under a southeasterly breeze between 16 and 18 knots.

Following the activation of the emergency beacon, the Prince de Bretagne shore crew in France was unable to get in contact with Lemonchois. However, early in the evening, the French sailor called his team to inform them that the trimaran had capsized. He was sound and safe inside the boat's central hull but was forced to to cut her rigging."


Prince de Bretagne trimaran capsized; Lionel Lemonchois safe inside central hull | VSail.info

It scares the hell out of me to think how a solo sailor can not only dominate a monster like that 80ft trimaran as well as punch it to a record. It seems that goes not without risks:rolleyes:. I know that this frontier land, pushing the limits to sail bigger and faster as a huge positive reflex on the development of systems that make sail and boat control easier, systems that have an almost direct application on cruising boats but I wonder till where they will go?



I suspect that it was not the record itself that led him to push too much but the successive 24 hours records from Armel on Banque Populaire. Probably he was trying for the 24 hours solo absolute record and that is really going on the limit...and with a monster like that is playing at Russian roulette. The wind was only 18k so he should wave full sails when the boat capsized. That can also indicate a technical failure or problem with the boat.

A French support team is organizing a towing operation from Brasil. It is going to take time but Lemonchois, except for an hurt hand, is safe is in the central hull and has plenty of food and water.

Regards

Paulo
 
#5,864 ·
Hi all,
What is your opinion of these rectangular portholes in the hull (I refer to the Sly 43 video). They look trendy from outside but do they not compromise hull stiffness and thickness? Are they not susceptible to outside damage from docks or other boat hulls despite fenders. I have not been inside such a boat but IMHO there is not much gain in light from such portholes near the water or may be someone will enjoy looking the water from the leeward side.
Regards
Rumen
 
#5,868 ·
Hull ports



Yes the gain in virtual space and scenery, not to mention light is huge. They call them inserts and they are not just a piece of plastic but normally a block with air inside. They have more to do with airplane "widows" than anything else. They started to be used in fast motorboats (much bigger than in sailboats) and the stress a hull of a fast motorboat can take is bigger than the one of a sailboat.

Today even some cruiser racers, more used to race than cruise use them. I don't know how they work regarding hull strength but obviously they can be used if the the hull is already designed to include them without great structural disadvantage otherwise very fast performance boats like the Sly 43, or performance cruisers used for racing would not be using them.

I am absolutely sure that the NA that design those boats know what they are doing, since almost all boats are using them and many of them are designed by some of the best NA in the world.

Regards

Paulo
 
#5,865 ·
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#5,866 · (Edited)
Sizzler Speedster

OK, so this isn't your typical daysailer but I was really taken with some of the ideas in this boat. Now all I need is a winning lottery ticket...
...

Boating Lone Wolf
It looks very well, not very different in spirit from some Italian big daysailers an built for the same purpose: the simple pleasure of sailing. Being designed by a Portuguese Na, I am pretty sure it sails well:D. Seriously, Tony Castro is a great NA and I am sure the boat is not only beautiful as it is very fast.

I like everything except the ridiculous amount of space taken by the automatic devices to make the boat button sailing. The boats has not obviously the space for those systems that require a bigger yacht, but as the client as always reason and since it was what he wanted:rolleyes:. Even so it is a crime regarding that beautiful interior:













Regards

Paulo
 
#5,869 ·
Thanks Paulo!
I believe they are very well engineered (since I have seen them on more expensive brands) and may be not less stiffer than the fibreglass hull that would not make any difference in the event of an impact with something stiffer than both of them. If they are scratched from outside unlike fibreglass it would not be possible to repair those inserts. If side docked you need to adjust fenders not to cover and potentially scratch them. But I am also sure that those inserts will add additional cost without many light benefits and you need to add blinders from inside.

Regards
Rumen
 
#5,872 · (Edited)
52 Super series Key West regatta

Great sailing in Key west. These series lost a lot regarding the previous Audi Med cup. Worst coverage, less teams, less countries, less TV exposure, less money and less interest in what regards the secondary races (40 series) that where many times so spectacular as the main races.

Even so the last day with lots of wind provided great sailing:





The secondary races:



 
#5,873 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: 52 Super series Key West regatta

Great sailing in Key west. These series lost a lot regarding the previous Audi Med cup. Worst coverage, less teams, less countries, less TV exposure, less money and less interest in what regards the secondary races (40 series) that where many times so spectacular as the main races.

Even so the last day with lots of wind provided great sailing:
It's an amazing this video. I am not sure whether I got properly what happened so correct me if I am wrong since I have no idea about racing. The guys were doing fine down wind with the gennaker, the helmsman doing the steering and the main sheet traveller, the next two guys forward were handling the gennaker sheet and the forth guy in the front was navigating and may be in charge of the vang sheet. At one point they sheeted hard on the wind in order to avoid a boat in trouble and this turned to a broach where they heeled excessively, sunk the leeward rail and blew the gennaker in the water. It took wuite a time to resume trim but not sure whether everything was finally OK. Do I miss something?
Regards
Rumen
 
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