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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > How big a holding tank vs. camping
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-27-2014 11:13 PM
newhaul
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

I posted earlier about the urinating issue if it goes into a comode it must be retained inland any other device as well as peeing over he side comes under the direct discharge exception as I referenced in post 27 of this thread
04-27-2014 10:41 PM
hellosailor
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

"I have often heard this but have a hard time believing it."
Heard what, (Off Topic comment deleted)

What's so hard to believe? Most regulations are poorly written and focused on one point. Regulations concerning the discharges from a vessel, are written to regulate the discharges from the vessel and the equipment on the vessel. The souls on board are part of neither, under the laws.

In fact, from the objective viewpoint of a topologist, a sailboat is very much like a donut. It is simply a torus (as the donut) but with multiple holes in it. Two-hole torus, three-hole torus...Still a torus. Now, apply that logically to the regulations, and you can have and use all kinds of aperatures "on" the boat, because if they penetrate the hull, they are not on the boat. They are simply more holes in the torus, and you are still on the outside of the torus, outside of the vessel, even if are belowdeck and pee through a urinal fitting. That's not "on" the boat, that's still on the outside of the torus.

As to the regulations...check the CFR. Its in their somewhere. No mention of toruses (tori?) though.
04-27-2014 09:27 PM
miatapaul
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"I have no problem with peeing over the side in open water, but it is technically a violation of discharge laws and there have been people cited, if witnessed doing so. "
Runs contrary to everything I've ever read. You are not allowed to discharge waste from any equipment on the boat, or any part of the boat, but AFAIK an animal, human or otherwise, is still allowed to pollute the waters directly.
Pee in a cup and dump it, that's a violation. Pee without the cup, no violation of sanitary or pollution or dumping laws. Local laws about public urination or indecent exposure, are a whole other issue. Hillary Clinton might have to wear a burqah to avoid that. (VBG)
I have often heard this but have a hard time believing it. They could get you for urinating in public (a misdemeanor in many locals) or indecent exposure.
04-27-2014 04:21 PM
hellosailor
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

"I have no problem with peeing over the side in open water, but it is technically a violation of discharge laws and there have been people cited, if witnessed doing so. "
Runs contrary to everything I've ever read. You are not allowed to discharge waste from any equipment on the boat, or any part of the boat, but AFAIK an animal, human or otherwise, is still allowed to pollute the waters directly.
Pee in a cup and dump it, that's a violation. Pee without the cup, no violation of sanitary or pollution or dumping laws. Local laws about public urination or indecent exposure, are a whole other issue. (Political comment deleted by tdw) . (VBG)
04-27-2014 03:10 PM
Minnewaska
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorten View Post
Pee: Dry bowl (NO lake water intake). After going, fill a cup with fresh water from the sink. Pour water, using quick swirl motion, into bowl. Pump bowl dry. That's it. This eliminates much of the volume going into the tank--pumping lake water into the bowl. Folks don't realize how much water this pushes into the tank.

Poop: Follow same method as above. HOWEVER, add one extra step; before going, be sure to pour a cup of water into the bowl. If necessary, swirl a second cup through the bowl after going.

Using this manner, 3-4 adult males can make a ~25 gallon tank last the better part of a week. When tied up in the evenings, use shore facilities. While at sea, guys can pee off the back of the boat.
While this method will conserve capacity, it also leaves waste in the hoses, which is the number one cause of odor. If your waste lines rise from the head to a vented loop and then return down to the holding tank, it takes a good gallon of clean chase water to flush them out.

Quote:
We once had a girl at the helm. A guy peed of the back and she had no clue.
I have no problem with peeing over the side in open water, but it is technically a violation of discharge laws and there have been people cited, if witnessed doing so.
04-27-2014 08:00 AM
jnorten
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

Here's what my bareboat sailing instructor taught me more than 10 years ago. It's the method I share to this very day whenever on a boat. It's received well because it works well.

Pee: Dry bowl (NO lake water intake). After going, fill a cup with fresh water from the sink. Pour water, using quick swirl motion, into bowl. Pump bowl dry. That's it. This eliminates much of the volume going into the tank--pumping lake water into the bowl. Folks don't realize how much water this pushes into the tank.

Poop: Follow same method as above. HOWEVER, add one extra step; before going, be sure to pour a cup of water into the bowl. If necessary, swirl a second cup through the bowl after going.

Using this manner, 3-4 adult males can make a ~25 gallon tank last the better part of a week. When tied up in the evenings, use shore facilities. While at sea, guys can pee off the back of the boat.

We once had a girl at the helm. A guy peed of the back and she had no clue.

My personal favorite is to sit at lifelines--feet dangling over the side "rail meat" style. If not heeling too much, then do this on the low side (unorthodox but works better than high side). Pee out the bottom of your shorts. NOBODY, and I mean nobody will know, except for the "tinkling" sound in calmer conditions. You can be staring straight into the eyes of someone in the cockpit. They cannot see your lower half because you're forward enough that the cabin top blocks their view!

Don't ask me how I know; "I heard this from a friend".
04-27-2014 07:41 AM
Minnewaska
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomharry View Post
over here in new zealand we are not suppose to discharge within 500m of shore,having said that there are no facilities to pump out so over she goes.
While I would not intuitively let a cruise ship put a few hundred thousand gallons overboard at that distance, it seems perfectly rational for pumping a few dozens gallons. Even if there are a few dozen recreational boats out there. I think many can't fathom how much water volume is between them and the shoreline. If I did the math correctly, assuming an average depth of 7 meters, each 1 meter slice of shoreline contains nearly 1 million gallons of water out to 500 meters. That's just one 500m x 7m x 1m slice. Our 3nm rule is just silly.

I would not object to a rule that required all discharge to pass through a macerator first, if science showed it would speed degradation.
04-26-2014 10:31 PM
tomharry
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

over here in new zealand we are not suppose to discharge within 500m of shore,having said that there are no facilities to pump out so over she goes.
04-25-2014 02:54 PM
cthoops
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

Thanks, smurphny! This has now risen to project #1 for this season. We have a Thetford which is fine, but we'd prefer to have something that doesn't have to be emptied as frequently.

I appreciate the information.
04-25-2014 01:05 PM
hellosailor
Re: How big a holding tank vs. camping

smurph, that's a nice installation & execution. I'm still not sold on those things, but that's a nice one.
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