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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > why so long?
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-27-2014 04:30 AM
captain jack
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post
Long Tiller Use....OR Tiller Extension... I used my tiller by steering and reaching from Inside my cabin . I was 10+ miles from marina in terrible lightning storm on Lake Michigan (no inlets, no bays). I was glad to do so. I've read that it is best to go down below in severe lightning.
Or use long tiller in a big downpour. But a tillerpilot & remote could do the job. As you know, some people like Tillers because you can lift up & have the whole cockpit for use at anchor.

ALSO, use long tiller in cold weather sitting forward behind Cabin to block wind, as is done while motoring 100s or 1000s of miles in the ICW, intra-coastal waterway. & to reach into cabin for food, drink, radio, etc.
i can definately see those benefits with a long tiller but the tiller is just too long. it makes movement around the cockpit very difficult. it's not going to be overly short by reducing the length by a foot but it will greatly increase the ease of movement around the cockpit.

as it is, right now, if you aren't careful when climbing out of the companionway, you run right into it before you are even completely clear of the cabin. i can only imagine how much of a PIA it would be when you change tacks and both of you have to clear it to switch sides. not terrible for the helmsman because he could just step over it. not so the crew.

definately going to stay with a tiller, though. at least for now.
02-26-2014 09:38 PM
sidney777
Re: why so long?

Long Tiller Use....OR Tiller Extension... I used my tiller by steering and reaching from Inside my cabin . I was 10+ miles from marina in terrible lightning storm on Lake Michigan (no inlets, no bays). I was glad to do so. I've read that it is best to go down below in severe lightning.
Or use long tiller in a big downpour. But a tillerpilot & remote could do the job. As you know, some people like Tillers because you can lift up & have the whole cockpit for use at anchor.

ALSO, use long tiller in cold weather sitting forward behind Cabin to block wind, as is done while motoring 100s or 1000s of miles in the ICW, intra-coastal waterway. & to reach into cabin for food, drink, radio, etc.
02-26-2014 07:20 PM
captain jack
Re: why so long?

ok. i was down at the boat this weekend, working, and i did some experimenting. i think that a tiller will be best, all things considered. if i sjorten my 51" tiller by a foot and change the shape so it is higher, sooner, it will work just fine. for one thing, the storage compartment is right where a wheel would be. that means the wheel would have to be small enough, in diameter, to not overhang the benches. but, also, with the tiller, i can see how it would be easier to single hand. so, that's my plan unless i find the tiller to just be a real PIA after a year of sailing.

this thread has been a really good exercise in creative thinking. if i ever do go for a wheel, on any future boat, i have all kinds of good ideas as to how to build one, myself, and save a lot of money doing it. thanks for all the ideas and input, guys.
02-08-2014 10:27 AM
captain jack
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
My cat pulled off the "," off my keyboard. So there is just a little black post sticking up that I miss half the time I try and use it.
that's funny. never had one of the cats mess with my computer but they do tend to get into stuff.
02-08-2014 09:27 AM
Group9
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
you guys may find i am missing some 'h's in my posts. the 'h' key isn't behaving itself, today. so, here are a bunch of 'h's you can use to fill in the blanks.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

let me know if you run out and need more.

My cat pulled off the "," off my keyboard. So there is just a little black post sticking up that I miss half the time I try and use it.
02-07-2014 11:26 PM
captain jack
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manatee View Post
Should be just about bulletproof mechanically.
Harder to turn the wheel (subject to wheel diameter).
Snappier response to steering input (could be good or bad).
Less 'fine-tuning' the rudder position.
Unknown amount of feedback through the wheel (I know Masefield speaks of "the wheel's kick" so there must be some, but how to gauge it?)
that's where gearing comes in. let's say, for ease of discussion, i use a one complete turn of the wheel, lock to lock, set up. i will probably use a 30" wheel, or around that size.

the tiller is 51" long. the radius of the wheel is 15". so, the tiller has around 3.375 times the leverage of the wheel. however, gearing the wheel to turn one rotation for every quarter rotation of the tiller sprocket adds a significant amount of mechanical advantage, in the form of torque.

it's very similar to how a motorcycle is geared. small drive gear/ larger driven gear. if the driven gear was as small as the drive gear, a motorcycle couldn't take off. it wouldn't have enough 'grunt'.

so, gearing the wheel, this way, will give my arm more 'grunt'. in this case, 4 times the 'grunt' as the 15" radius of the wheel would give me. the tiller isn't 4 times longer than the radius of the wheel. so, it should give me more leverage than the tiller could at full length.
02-07-2014 11:25 PM
captain jack
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post
Wow, I didn't know you had that mech experience/know-how. I added one more question above, if you don't mind. Unless its already covered in this discussion. Not read everything yet. (I missed the previous motorcycle comments while I was typing. Didn't try to repeat you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post

Another not so obvious question, that seems obvious. Which way will you turn the wheel to turn
to Port, to Starboard ? (compared to your Tiller ) -Unless you have covered this in your 11 page discussion. It may take some getting used to.
i touched on that a little. with the cable idea i had, you could rig it to turn either way. just depends on how you route your cables. with the chain set up, it would depend n which side of the pedestal the wheel was on. if the wheel was on the front of the pedestal, it would turn opposite of the way a car would turn...so, like a tiller. if it was, conventionally, behind the pedestal, it would turn like a car wheel.

to be honest, i'm not sure which i would prefer. i think, i would prefer it to turn as a normal wheel. i know everyone says it would feel unnatural to use a wheel if you are used to a tiller but it's not a tiller. it's a wheel and i would be aware of it.

it's kind of like my bike. i learned to ride stock motorcycles with toe shifters and rode that way for decades. i have been running right hand suicide shifters ( hand shifter ) for my last two choppers. the minute i switched i adapted without a problem. i can switch to a stock bike and back again without issues. i would think it would be the same with a wheel on a sailboat.

plus, i won't be standing behind it, i will be sitting to one side. instead of side to side, my arm will be moving up and down, basically.
02-07-2014 08:00 PM
manatee
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
you guys may find i am missing some 'h's in my posts. the 'h' key isn't behaving itself, today. so, here are a bunch of 'h's you can use to fill in the blanks.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

let me know if you run out and need more.
That's just your Cockney accent showing.
02-07-2014 07:49 PM
sidney777
Re: why so long?

Wow, I didn't know you had that mech experience/know-how. I added one more question above, if you don't mind. Unless its already covered in this discussion. Not read everything yet. (I missed the previous motorcycle comments while I was typing. Didn't try to repeat you.
02-07-2014 07:46 PM
manatee
Re: why so long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
lol. i guess it is bicycle tech. i was thinking motorcycle, but that part isn't muc differemt, is it? it is true. not many machines more bulletproof than a simple one speed bicycle.
Motorcycle == motorized bicycle.

Bicycle tech design + motorcycle parts == heavy-duty mechanicals, cheap parts.
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