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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?
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Thread: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-02-2014 06:16 PM
WoobaGooba
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
I have a vang that I hate and consider virtually worthless. I'm considering removing it and am looking for opinions. I get that on a smaller boat, the vang is very useful to shape the main as the wind increases. But on the configuration shown below with the mid-boom sheeting, I wonder if it is of any use. Upwind, no matter how much tension I put on it (as shown: 4:1, now rigged as 8:1), there is no change.
Absolutely needed (for your configuration, which is close to mine).

As soon as you ease off below a close reach, the vang is going to control the leach tension. On the wind, the leach tension is the mainsheet's job.
01-31-2014 02:16 PM
jackdale
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
I fiddle with the sails. It isn't unusual for me to squeeze half a knot more out of the boat when I come on watch.

Crossing the Atlantic, if I can fill a watch bill with people like me we'll save 4 days on the crossing. Even if you are correct about increasing speed by a tenth of a knot you'll still save a day. It adds up. Sail fast.
Agreed. I call it sailing efficiently.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
01-31-2014 02:00 PM
SVAuspicious
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
I take it back. There may have been one time. I had a racer on board one time, and he pretty much spent the entire week he was on board with me, continuously pulling and adjusting ever single line on the boat, and then saying something like, "See, that increased our speed by a tenth of a knot."
I fiddle with the sails. It isn't unusual for me to squeeze half a knot more out of the boat when I come on watch.

Crossing the Atlantic, if I can fill a watch bill with people like me we'll save 4 days on the crossing. Even if you are correct about increasing speed by a tenth of a knot you'll still save a day. It adds up. Sail fast.
01-31-2014 01:25 PM
Sabreman
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

I think that we're done with this thread. No sniping, gentlemen. Lots of boats in the sea and lots of ways to sail them. Let's leave it at that.

Thank you for the early replies that were on topic. They were concise and technical and contributed to a decision on my part. I appreciate it.
01-31-2014 11:26 AM
Group9
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
I would assume that your 'racer friend' also increased the ability of your boat to 'point' by many degrees. Such would be important sometimes when 'clawing off a lee shore' or attempting to sail into the wind before stink weather arrives.
Nowadays the trend of many cruisers, sadly, is to drop all sails at the least threat of increased wind/waves and turn on the BIG engine; those pointy white things on the top of the boat used for the indication of a quaint 'bygone historical culture' of sailing. ;-)
Have we met somewhere before? You seem to think you know a lot more about me than I know about you.

I've only been sailing since I was 14. I'm 55 now. Some how, by some miracle, I have crossed the Gulf of Mexico four times, crossed the Gulf Stream numerous times, sailed through quite a few storms, and had my boat survive three hurricanes at anchor. And, none of that horrible stuff has happened to me because I didn't sail like you do (however that is).

Maybe I just haven't been sailing long enough, yet.
01-31-2014 11:22 AM
Jeff_H
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Too bad... if they are coastal cruisers they are probably getting to port too late for that last mooring buoy, the last spot on the dock, or the last table at their favourite restaurant.

One of the joys of sailing for me is all the tweaking and trimming striving for the best speed/VMG whether racing or not. - Catching that distant boat on the horizon in the next 10 or 20 miles...

I hate to see/hear newbies with Cat 22s and such without a vang "don't need it"... "don't know how to use it"... "doesn't really matter, does it??".. "we're not racing"

Beginning sailors are much more likely to experience a higher occurrence of accidental gybes and arguably 'need' a vang even more for that reason alone.
All of that is exactly right. In addition, even if speed has less than zero importance to you, proper use of outhaul, vang, and halyard tension results in less heeling, less weather helm, better course holding with less steering input changes, less wear and tear on the sails, which are all useful to sailors of all kinds, but especially to cruisers.

In the discussion about setting the vang and topping lift when raising and lowering sails, probably the one control line that almost never adjust in my topping lift. It remains set at a length which is sufficiently slack when under sail and coincidentally does not create problems with headroom in the cockpit when the sail is dropped.

Outbound's comment about the toping lift setting during a reef effecting the shape of his sail has me curoius since I have not seen that myself. In my case, there is no relationship between the topping lift settings and shape of my sail when reefed.

Before raising the sail, I typically preset my vang and outhaul to the positions that I typically use for light air, which are pretty slack. Both are led back to stoppers at the cockpit which are adjacent to the halyard so as the boat bears away I make final adjustments of the outhaul and vang, adjusting the outhaul first and then the vang.

Jeff
01-31-2014 11:16 AM
christian.hess
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

couldnt agree more rich

peace

slow boats arent "that" slow in the hands of smart skippers...and trimmers
01-31-2014 11:09 AM
RichH
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
Yeah, no I don't have mast roller furling, and yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I take it back. There may have been one time. I had a racer on board one time, and he pretty much spent the entire week he was on board with me, continuously pulling and adjusting ever single line on the boat, and then saying something like, "See, that increased our speed by a tenth of a knot."

I threw him overboard and haven't seen him since.
I would assume that your 'racer friend' also increased the ability of your boat to 'point' by many degrees. Such would be important sometimes when 'clawing off a lee shore' or attempting to sail into the wind before stink weather arrives.
Nowadays the trend of many cruisers, sadly, is to drop all sails at the least threat of increased wind/waves and turn on the BIG engine; those pointy white things on the top of the boat used for the indication of a quaint 'bygone historical culture' of sailing. ;-)
01-31-2014 10:57 AM
Faster
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
I know people like you.
... only until you toss them off the boat!
01-31-2014 10:56 AM
christian.hess
Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

yup...but a cat 22 isnt the most common cruiser is it? or medium size boat

I agree with you man honestly

I can have it both ways too

relaxed getting into port whenever, sail shapes fixed at a nice midway setting or

tweaking and have fun like I used to in my racing days(btw I like to cruise more than race)

so what Im saying in the end I guess is there is no fixed way of doing things on all boats...

if you have a vang and its installed correctly(a lot arent) then used it and learn how to

if you dont like it sell it

if you have a boat with no vang and a light finicky boom and small ratio main then why not rig one up, tune it and have fun...be safe...

vangs are great when used well

not so and quite dangerous when not...a snapping vang for example can be catastrophic for goosenecks, mast fitting and booms

it happens all the time either by racing aggresively or simply by bad useage


its this that my points were foccused on

peace
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