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Bene vs Catalina?

52K views 73 replies 33 participants last post by  Cruisingdad 
#1 ·
I am in the process of determining what boat to by next.

I currently own and sail a Hunter 30 (okay - I'm ducking…) in Chesapeake Bay.

I would like for my next boat to be in the 38-42 foot range. I know that a lot of people say to by the smallest boat you can live with but I like to have a bit of room and would rather by the biggest boat my wife and I can safely handle.

Intended purpose will be day sails, weekends and the occasional 1-2 week sail on the Chesapeake.

I really like look of the heavy cruising boats, Liberty 456, Bristol etc but feel that they are overkill for my intended purpose. A bit like driving a Hummer H1 to the local mall.

I would like a relatively new boat (later than year 2000) and do not mind "high volume production boats"

I am currently looking at and would like your opinions on:

Beneteau 393 vs Catalina 380 or 387

Beneteau 411 vs Catalina 400 or 42

If I ignored all practical aspects (and the admiral) I would by this puppy;

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

Thankful for any input.
 
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#2 ·
You can't go wrong with the Beneteau. We owned a 36CC and there is little comparison between them and the Catalina..most compare the B to IP, H/R, and Dufour...We now have a 38' Sabre and again no comparison to the Beneteau...a step above altogether.
 
#4 ·
ok, your boats are out of my league; price wise and size wise.
when i dream, i think of these monsters and my own crew.

The research i have done suggests prices on catarmans this size don't go down
I can't remember which specific model but a new boat in 2000 was cheaper then than the same boat now, used.

why the rant? just to help prove:
Buy the biggest, most expensive boat you can and when you sell it, it will pay off.
 
#5 ·
I agree

I also own a Beneteau 36CC. We looked at a Catalina 36 at the same time. Fit and finish below was far superior on the Beneteau. The Beneteau we bought is a '98 and I think the Catalina we were looking at was a 2000. We bought in 2002.
 
#6 ·
I am not a big fan of the layout in the Bene 393.
The entire starboard side of the cabin is devoted to storage cabinets and entertainment systems. This may work for you, but we prefer having two opposing seats to sit and lie/lounge on as opposed to the one on the 393.
Other than the layout which is a personal preffrence, it looks to be a good boat for what it is, a production family cruiser. Large roomy cockpit, nice galley, easy to sail, etc.

You do realise that the other Bene model on your list is no longer in production.

They now have the 423 or the brand new 40. I don't care for the astethics of the new line from Beneteau. You should be able to find a 411 available in your search, but they are out of production.

Can't comment on the Catalina's, don't know about em, I'll leave that for CD, if he is available.
 
#7 ·
Either the Beneteau ("Bendy Toy") or the Catalina would be fine for your purpose. Others like the Junneau would be fine, too.

The Swan 43 in your link is a great boat, but it would not only cost more initially....the upkeep would likely make you and the Admiral unhappy. Especially the teak decks.

For daysails and the occasional couple of week (or month) trips on the Chesapeake, just about anything afloat would work. Choose one in good shape which meets with your needs (and makes the Admiral happy), get a good survey before purchase, and go for it.

Bill
 
#8 ·
I apologize if I do not have a lot of time at the mooment to do a long comment on these boats. I will try and make it as short and sweet as I can.

If I offend anyone with my comments, I apologize. I am not myself here lately, but will try to restrain my comments.

Contrary to what was said, I have found little if any of the Bene that was better to the Catalina. I think the exception may be some of the first series, but those are poor to terrible cruisers (though I think they would be fiun to sail). I have found the cabinetry on the benes scant with little thought to storage. I think benes are warmer down below than most catalinas (the dark wood versus teak). I am tryin to remember the exact layout off the top of my head, but I think the benes you mentioned have forward facing nav stations which is a big plus. That is about the end of the benefits I have found. The Catalinas have many benefits beyond the Benes too. Let me outline some of the ones you have mentioned.

Me, my wife, child, and 2 dogs lived and cruised on a Catalina 380. It is from the old morgan hull design is not the fastest boat in the world, but is heavy and does well in heavy seas. We had ours in many storms. It is a very nice liveaboard boat. It has a very comfortable aft berth, a seperate shower (important), and a comfortable nav station. The cockpit is laid out well and easy to single hand. The one negative is that it needs to be blowing 12-15 to really get close to hull speed.

We currently own a 400. It is better than the 380 in most respects. It has more wood, has 2 heads (both a positive and a negative), and a LOT more storage. It is very comfortable. It performs MUCH better than the 380. I have not had her offshore yet. If you do not mind spending a bit more money, the 400 has many cruiser aspects that are better than the Catalina 42.

I like the original design of the 387 more than the changes they made. I personally would just spend the money on a 380 over a 387.

If you have specific questions, pm me or write back here and I will answer as I can. I know those boats EXTREMELY well.

- CD

PS Catalina has a very large owners group and puts out a magazine called Mainsheet which details specifics on each boat. I have heard that the technical editor of the 400 is a very good sailor, very knowledgeable, good looking, and a true gentleman. I wonder who he is????
 
#9 ·
Regarding your consideration of Catalina and Beneteau the boats mentioned would be fine for your intended purpose although the quality is something I would be concerned about. For example Beneteau uses iron for ballast whereas lead is the preferred ballast material for a number of reasons. This is an example of the quality shortcuts taken. Another concern is if you decide later you want to do an off shore passage you would not feel comfortable with your current choices.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I have to disagree about the finish being superior on the Beneteau. Its cleaner and more modern looking, but that doesn't make it better. I think they are just different styles. I like them both. Just made for different tastes. The make or break for me is the aft cabin layout. I like the island berth in the Catalina 400. Its roomy enough that you don't have to climb over someone to get out, or slide in to your coffin style bed. I initially liked the pullman berth, but after trying out a few, they are too small for the master berth and you have to climb over each other. My favorite is the Catalina 400, especially the cockpit.
Good luck.
Nice to see you CD! Hope all is going well.
 
#11 ·
You do know how to start a pissing contest don't you. This isn't a Hunter fan getting even is it?

The answer to Bene or Catalina is. Bene. Catalina. Anything but a Bene, Catalina, or Hunter! Take your pick!

I think that the Bene 36.7 and 40.7 in your range are great boats. Not as amenable to cruising, but enough to keep most people happy...and fast. The 40.7 would be my first choice.....and I own a Catalina.

The number series and prior to that the Oceanis Series of Bene's are nice entry level boats that will suit your purposes. The new 40 I am not a fan of. I agree that the interior finish is pretty on a new or very well kept Bene, but they do not take the beating a Catalina interior will. Different strokes for different folks again. I think that someone said in an earlier post they are just different and that is true. However, in all of the 3-5 year old boats I have seen the Catalina looked better below. Iron also bothers me for ballast, but these are production boats and they need to cut costs somewhere. It is up to you to figure out where.

I liked the old Catalina 38 better than the 387. It is a great sailing boat ( the boat I sailed was a deep draft) and makes good use of the room below. I prefer the 400 to all three of your Catalina choices, although there is nothing wrong with any of them.

Let the pissing contest continue!
 
#12 ·
kd3pc said:
You can't go wrong with the Beneteau. We owned a 36CC and there is little comparison between them and the Catalina..most compare the B to IP, H/R, and Dufour...We now have a 38' Sabre and again no comparison to the Beneteau...a step above altogether.
Please tell me that the IP and the H/R are not Island Packet and Hallberg-Rassy. Beneteau's, Jenneau's or Catalina's don't even play in the same sandbox as a Hallberg-Rassy or even an Island Packet in terms of construction! Even the Dufour is a far better built boat than the Beneteau. People who don't know any better may compare them but there are NOT in the same league by any means. I also would hope you are not saying a Sabre is better than a Hallberg-Rassy? The HR's are in the Hinckley, Morris & Swan category not in the Sabre or Tartan type category.

In terms of Catalina or Beneteau they are like Chevy's and Ford's. Catalina's tend to have much more use of stainless steel fittings like cleats vs. aluminum, more tankage and larger engines. They also use real lead keels instead of cast iron but the Beneteau's, as a line, perform better. Beneteaus and Catalina's are very similar in build quality and neither of them, unless it's a FIRST series, would make a good pond crosser..
 
#14 ·
For what its worth - I think that the Catalinas are better looking boats than the newer Beneteaus - and I have a sneaking suspicion that there build quiality has been getting better over the last little while - which I don't think is happening with Beneteau.

There are websites for both brands - Catalina Owners.com for owners sailing production sailboats Beneteau sailboat owners - probably worth asking around on those sites

Good luck !
 
#15 ·
I don't think when you compare Beneteau's and Catalina's there is a appreciable difference in bulid quality. Each has different compromises, so it comes down to which ones carry more weight for you and which boat has the features you desire. They both are targeted to the same market for the same types of use. For me, Catalina's just seem to have an edge in terms of what I like in the layout of a boat.

I usually dream about my next boat being something like a Sabre 387 or 38 or Caliber 35, but knowing my fairly limited sailing ambitions and severely limited budget, I keep the Catalina 42 on my list of boats to dream about, based on its price/availablity, nice lines and spaciousness. (Yeah, Yeah, a pullman isn't as nice as a centerline, but at least you don't have to get out of bed "tail over teakettle" like you do in a V-berth.)
 
#16 ·
OK, someone had to ask... If you are looking at these types of boats, why not throw in the mix the Hunter 380/38 and 410/41. I am not a big fan on the aesthetics of the 380 and 410, but think that the newer 38 and 41 series boats look pretty nice (of the past 2 years type vintage). I hear that the 38 sails really well and is a nice boat - I prefer the Catalina 387 island berth though for that 38' type range (though I think the 387 is close to a 40 footer?).

If you really want the space, liveability, etc., I would take a look at the Hunter 420 as well. We know some folks that have one and it is a really comforatable boat. That being said, I really do not know how well the sail, how the aesthetics hit you, etc. Very comfy - not sure how important that is to you and the admiral.

Is aesthetics the main reason that you were not including Hunters? From what I understand, with the newer boats, you will find little difference in quality of construction, etc. from the big 3. In the end, you should have about the same product, just pick the one you like the most. I personally think the aesthetics of the Hunters are vastly improving from 5-10 years ago.
 
#17 ·
I just can't get past that big arch with the traveler on top of it.
And no back stays makes me nervous. (But, I have to admit, there out there and still standing)
 
#18 ·
sailortjk1 said:
I just can't get past that big arch with the traveler on top of it.
And no back stays makes me nervous. (But, I have to admit, there out there and still standing)
Yeah that.

The arch just looks like something from a motorboat. If they have to have it, couldn't they move it and angle it further aft and add dingy davits and prewire it for solar panels? Then it would seem more like a feature to me and not just something that detracts from the aesthetics from a lot of peoples view.

Also, the B&R backstayless rig seems to me to be an excessive complication for dubious benefit. Lots of boats have walk through transoms without doing away with the backstay. I'm of a fan of simple and a split backstay seems a better solution if you want a walkthrough transom.

I do have to admit that the Admiral is swayed by the comfortable accomodations that most/many Hunter models offer.
 
#19 ·
Thanks to everybody for your advice.

No intention of starting a pissing contest :)

I just wanted people’s advice on these specific boats.

I own a Hunter, it is my first sailboat. It has been a great first boat, we sailed and learned a lot last season and we intend to get a lot of mileage out of her this season while planning and looking for a bigger boat for the 2008 season.

This does not necessarily make me a great Hunter fan.
The main reason I did not include Hunters is actually the aesthetics.
I do not like the arch, especially the older fiberglass versions, the stainless arch is sort of acceptable, I am sure it is very practical, but it does not really please my eye…
Lack of backstay does not worry me; I am an engineer and assume that the lads at Hunter have done their analysis on the rig.

I do not plan to cross any ponds any time soon. If pond crossing becomes a possibility in the future, I would then buy a boat that is suitable for this type of voyage.

The reason for looking at Beneteaus and Catalinas is practical, there are a lot of them in the market, and they seem reasonably priced.

I would consider Hanse, Dehler and Bavaria as well but there does not seem to be as many of them in the market here in the States. I also prefer Yanmar compared to Volvo as I suspect that there is a greater service network for Yanmar in the States.

The boats that I really like the aesthetics of, Swan, Baltic and Sweden all have relatively deep draft that is not ideal for the Chesapeake. I would also have to go for a mid 80’s boat to stay in the same price range. More problems and expensive upkeep.

The size range of 38-40 foot is based on what I believe that we can comfortably handle.
I recently had an opportunity to sail on a new Bene 473 with all the goodies. Absolutely beautiful boat but I think it is too large for my needs and skill level.

I agree with Cruisingdad on the "warmer" look of the Bene interior. I also like the teak inserts in the cockpit. Makes it look less plastic. The blue hull on the limited edition 411 looks fantastic.

Sailortjk - I recall that on the 393 "The entire starboard side of the cabin is devoted to storage cabinets and entertainment systems" from when I chartered one. I also prefer two opposing seats.

What appeals to me with the Catalina 380 (there's a couple in my marina) is that I think it has got sleeker looks. Also the centerline aft berth should avoid climbing over the each other in the middle of the night. Chartered a Bene 393 last year and the Pullman berth did not appeal to me.

Thanks to CD for excellent information regarding performance of 380 vs 400.

Does the 380 and the 387 share the same basic hull? It seems that LOA is 38'5" for the 380 and 39'10" for the 387? If the hull (and keel, rig) is the same I assume that the performance issue would apply to the 387 as well?

How do you find the cockpit on the 400?

Reason for asking is that we chartered a Sunsail 39 (I think it is called Beneteau Cyclades) in the BVI. Dual wheel boat with huge cockpit, very few handholds. The wife did not like the lack of handholds.

Anyways, thanks for all your input and advice.
 
#20 ·
jorgenl,

Ok, hoping I do not tick anyone off here again, I will try and answer you on several points. Again, no one take offense please:

1) I would buy a new Hunter over a new Beneteau or Jeauneau. I think Hunter is making improvements, and the last few benes and Jeauneaus I went on (new ones, 38-44 feet) were VERY DISSAPOINTING! One of the cabinet doors were loose. THe new Jeauneau hand rails look ready to break some fingers and installing a generator in them would be an absolute nightmare of glasswork. I do not mind big and wide open, but the multi levels and tricks steps were poorly thought out. The wooden steps are a hazard in a sea without taping, and maintenance on extra systems will take a circus acrobat. They look good in the boat show down below. They have a nicer, warmer, more comfortable feel than a catalina (in my opinion, others dissagree), but that was it. I DOOO like the older benes, but I still bought 4 Catalinas over them.

2) The suggestion of the Hunter was a good one. I saw a REAL effort to improve quality. The issue I would have is whether those changes really are long-term. Will they really last and hold up? I do not know. Only time will tell. But if I was about to drop 250-300k in a boat, I would let someone else find out first and let some time play out. Also, you will be dealing with the ever lasting Hunter bashing (which is unfair on these boats and some of the others). You are NOT buying your boat for someone else and as long as you own it could probably care less what anyone else says, but should you ever want to sell it... that will make it an issue.

3) The early model 387's made many changes Kris and I liked. They had the fold-up table and coffee table to the side. I do not care for these huge salon tables that take up half the cabin. If you have that large of a party coming over to eat, sit out in the cockpit. However, that seems to be the trend. Thus, the fold-up table was a real plus. Many of the newer 387s do not have the fold-up. They are sparse on cabinet space. The finish out is fine, just not enough of it. I would buy a 380 over a new 387.

4) The 387 is a totally different hull, basically a totally different everything.

5) If you can pony up a little more for the 400, it is better than the 380 in all respects. It performs better. It has considerably more room. It has 2 heads (I prefer one but my wife prefers 2 b/c of the boys). It has a double anchor roller. The cockpit is VASTLY more comfortable. It has 2 steering stations and easy pass-through. It has more room in the lazarette. It has storage all over the place, including under the floor in the galley. Systems are easier to get access to. The nav station is larger and more comfortable (in fact, short of the 470, it has the best nav station of any of the catalinas). It has a very nice, lighted wine/glass cabinet. It has a lot more storage in the galley cabinets. It has access switches leading down the companionway. It has hidden access lighting throughout. You easily have room to increase the battery bank to 1000 ah with little glass work. The salon table is much larger and more comfortable. you can easily modify and put in a large inverter/charger. Generator access and installation is easier. The head room over the aft berth (owners berth) is higher. Ther is more cabinetry in the aft berth and a lot more storage.

6) The only negative of the 400 compared to the 387 is the shower. It is seperate from the head (very important), but it is smaller than the 380. The shower on the 380 is more comfortable. The 400 also does not have a dedicated wet locker and will take some modifications in one of the heads. The 400 also does not have an opening port inside the shower. It has a solar vent (none of which work really well). We are going to modify this.

Basically, if you can deal with a bit more money, the 400 is a much more comfortable and better boat than the 380, which is a nicer boat than the 387.

7) I almost bought a 42 over the 400. The 42 costs a little less and has several differences that make it appealing. The salon is more open and inviting. The galley and accompanying garage (storage space centerline and aft of the galley). The 42 can come with a washer/dryer in the forward shower area. One head is accessbile from the salon. The cockpit is more comfortable than the 380/387, not as large and comfortable as the 400 (due to the walk-through with 2 steering stations).

8) However, there were several things about the 42 that killed it for us. THe second stateroom is not as comfortable and accessible as the V on the 400. We have 2 boys and they would be crawling over each other to get out. That is a real negative. The nav station on the 42 is way forward and small for a boat of that size (in my opinion). Adding a lot of electronics or goodies will require some hoakie woodwork or just leave them out in the open. I always prefer having the nav close to the cockpit so you are not walking so far in a sea to make 1/2 hour paper plots and you can also communicate with the helmsman easier. The pullman is not prefered to a centerline berth you can both crawl out of. Anytime someone has to get up in the middle of the night (to pee, check the anchor, whatever) which happens several times/night, you will be crawling over the other person and waking them up. The 42 does not have a good escape point for 2 people. An escape point is an area that you can sit down, spread out (away from the kids or company) and read a book, type, or just relax. The 380, 387, and 400 all have that in the owners cabin. The escape point is one of the most critical pieces of living aboard or spending lots of time on a boat. Lastly, the settees in the salon on the 42 are somewhat curved and will not easily accomodate lee cloths or sleeping in the salon for long passages. That will be an issue anytime you make long runs.

9) There is NOOOO comparrison between a Catalina and a HR. HR's are much better built boats. However, I would buy a Catalina over a IP. If you reallywant to go that direction, I like Calibers.

I personally think the 400 is one of the best boats Catalina makes. It is comfortable, performs well, is easy to sail and single hand, and makes a good live aboard/cruiser. It will take you ANYWHERE in this hemishpere in comfort and safety.

- CD
 
#21 ·
Can I beat a dead horse? Big problems with the build quality of Bene's, hence why their name often gets changed to "Bendy-Tow". You shouldn't be able to get the hull of a 40' boat to flex by pushing in on it, but you can with many Bene's. They look good at the dock, but the build quality is severely lacking. I'd say Catalina is a big step up with regards to build quality and the hardware. I honestly don't know anything about the Jenneau's.

CD - if you were crossing the Atlantic, would you still pick a Catalina over an IP? That full keel that's horrible at the dock is soooo nice for motion on the ocean.

And Hallberg-Rassy is on the same level as Cabo, Passport, Tayana, etc., not Bene.
 
#22 ·
CD - thank you very much for the info.

Of the Catalina's it seems that the 400 is definetely the best bet.

There's a couple of 380's and 400's for sale up in MD.

We'll head up that way soon to check them out.

It would be interesting if someone with similar experiences on the Bene 393 vs 411 could provide som pros and cons about these models.

In the meantime - noaa tells me that it should be 75F and sunny this weekend so we'll take our little Hunter out for a spin on the bay.

Thanks again / Jorgen
 
#23 ·
Labatt,

People have taken Catalinas across the ponds, but I would not do it. It is not the right boat. The larger catalinas (36 up) were really intended as island hoppers. The 380, 40, 42, 470, and 440 can make much longer runs. However, the things that make them a good island hopper make them a bad pond crosser. However, the likewise is true: Valiants are awesome at crossing oceans, but as I have said countless times before, would be at the bottom of my list for a island hopper.

Regarding the IP's - I will no doubt raise the ire of others when I say this: I would not take one across the ocean. I put it in the category of slow island hopper. I would take a LRC across the pond, mason, bristol, hylas, valiant, Pacific seacraft... but not an IP. The one thing I do like about the IP's is the shallow draft and protected keel... but that is about it. The IP's are very well marketed, but pricey for what you get. For the same money or less, buy a Caliber. I have been genuinely impressed with them. The only issue with the Caliber is some of the systems are very awkward to get to, espcially any runs under the master berth. I also think the location and size of the nav station is quirky. However, they are solid, heavy boats and would take a beating in my opinion. I think Matt (Soulsearcher??? Cannot remember his call name here) owns one.

All of this is just my opinion. I have not owned any of these. The only boats I know pretty well outside of the productions boats are Valiants. The only other boat I have spent much time offshore on is a Formossa.

- CD

PS I do not mean any dissrespect to IP owners. They have made more long distance runs than any Catalina and many (not all) of the owners love them. I just personally do not like the build out and do not trust them any more than a Catalina, maybe less. Just my personal opinion so no 'I hate CD-PM's' back to me please.
 
#25 ·
Hi Bill,

How are you? In the US or islands?

To answer your question, the V40 and V42 are small down below. VERY SMALL! THe cockpits are small. The salon is small. Wally/Valiant calls them the worlds best liveaboards, I dissagree. They may be the worlds best passagemakers, but not liveaboards. They are awesome boats with a lot of thought put into safety and longevity (and maintenance, incidentally), but they are cramped down below compared to most production boats.

Cost is not the factor.

These are my opinions only. I know a bunch of people on Valiants that love them and think they are fine. Just my opinion. I cannot remember, but do you have a V-40?

- CD

PS I have to run in a second, so if I do not resond for a while, that is why. Hope you are doing well. Take care.
 
#26 ·
Bill-

Just remember the traits that make for a good coastal cruiser and island hopper—generally don't make for a good bluewater boat.
 
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