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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Bavaria Sailboats
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Thread: Bavaria Sailboats Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-04-2007 02:41 PM
sailortjk1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente

What gets up my nose is the representation for the purposes of marketing certain coastal-capable cruisers as "performance bluewater cruisers".
Agreed. 100%
05-04-2007 02:29 PM
Valiente
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Valiente, the first recorded bluewater passage appears to have been made in an un-named "Ark" class vessel captained by some guy named "Noah". Records are scanty but it appears there were no jackstraps or other conventional safety equipment onboard and that the captain placed all his faith in divine intervention alone, deeming that sufficient.

So, perhaps Bavaria IS building a true bluewater boat, and it is just the rest of us that have gotten our thinking wrong?
It wouldn't be the first appearance of faith-based boat design. Look at most of the Hunter line. If they don't induce desperate prayer when seen in ten-foot seas, I don't know what will.
05-04-2007 02:27 PM
Valiente
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailortjk1
It seems to me that all we discuss are wether this or that is "Blue Water" capable, when in reality, most of us don't intend to do any "Blue Water" sailing.
Some do, but many don't.
This is true, and it's a distinction most don't make, as "bluewater" connotes not only the capabilities of the boat, but via association the skill and experience of the crew.

I won't criticize the decision to buy a wide-open, lightly built production boat if the purposes are, as is 95% of boating, daysailing or coastal cruising. I will criticize taking such boats offshore and expecting offshore endurance or, more likely, a movement so "whippy" that it exhausts and endangers the crew.

What gets up my nose is the representation for the purposes of marketing certain coastal-capable cruisers as "performance bluewater cruisers".

Saying it might get some sales from the "heading to Fiji, stopped in BVIs" crowd (and more power to them if that's what they want), but it does not make said boats offshore-capable.
05-04-2007 01:53 PM
sailortjk1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue
I suppose I would technically be considered as a green water sailor.
Great Lakes Costal Cruiser Here.
In the middle no more than twenty miles to each shoreline.

If your interested, Cam has started a Poll in a different thread.
05-04-2007 01:49 PM
hellosailor Valiente, the first recorded bluewater passage appears to have been made in an un-named "Ark" class vessel captained by some guy named "Noah". Records are scanty but it appears there were no jackstraps or other conventional safety equipment onboard and that the captain placed all his faith in divine intervention alone, deeming that sufficient.

So, perhaps Bavaria IS building a true bluewater boat, and it is just the rest of us that have gotten our thinking wrong?
05-04-2007 01:46 PM
TrueBlue
Quote:
What is the percentage of this, the active members here on sailnet, that consider themselves to be "Blue Water" sailors?
Can we take a poll?
I have never crossed an ocean in my boat or gone beyond the continental shelf in one owned by me, but I've sailed in the Atlantic Ocean hundreds of times. Although my boat may be capable of this and I have dreamed of making an ocean crossing, my wife could never be convinced to do so - for as long as we are married.

Therefore, FWIW, I suppose I would technically be considered as a green water sailor.
05-04-2007 01:35 PM
sailortjk1 We talk a lot around these threads about "Blue Water" and crossing the Oceans, my question is and I often wonder, what percentage of the overall sailing population is considered to be true "Blue Water Sailors/Long Range Cruisers"?
I would be willing to bet that the number is very, very low; maybe around 5% or so of the overall sailing population, maybe its even less than that.
What is the percentage of this, the active members here on sailnet, that consider themselves to be "Blue Water" sailors?
Can we take a poll?
It seems to me that all we discuss are wether this or that is "Blue Water" capable, when in reality, most of us don't intend to do any "Blue Water" sailing.
Some do, but many don't.
05-04-2007 01:20 PM
Valiente I don't hold coastal cruisers (or at least boats sold to the coastal cruiser/fair weather crowd) to the same standard. But when part of the sail patter explicitly speaks to "bluewater/oceanic" capabilities and certifications, and when you can see the absence of padeyes, low-rider lifelines, inadequate handholds, no provision for storm shutters, huge companionways with missing bridgedecks and 1/4" plastic dropboards, 200 gallon cockpits, tiny bilge pumps, vast saloons, etc.... well, I have to wonder what's happened to the tried and tested concept of "oceanic".

I don't care if these things are absent on a coastal cruiser, because they are geared for entertainment, comfort and ease of operation on light-air days. But you can have a fast, sleek and comfortable offshore cruiser that DOES have these attributes...it just costs more.
05-03-2007 11:52 PM
Alden68 People seem to equate crossing the Atlantic with boat quality. However, no matter how many barrels go over niagara, no one ever comments on the quality of the barrels involved. Quality should be judged not by what something can achieve when pushed, but by how it handles day to day in the environment in which it was designed to exist. The quality of the Bavaria product raises too many questions to whole heartedly say that it is a quality product. I strongly believe that you should not be lured by marketing tactics.
05-03-2007 10:30 PM
Valiente
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denr
Like Jeff I have crawled through them at boat shows with flash light in hand examining the bowels of them. I was was significantly UNIMPRESSED. Lots of unfinished areas, poor storage for the size of the vessel, poorly set up for sailing and the sides of the hulls when sighting down them looked like the Mississippi River on a windy day, very wavy. The worst feature, the faux wood cabin sole, gives new meaning to cheesy!
To be fair, you can find this on Dufours, Hanses and a number of other popular production boats (I won't bother naming the usual suspects). I have found far less to bitch about on Tartans and J-Boats, both of which I thought were capable of sailing as advertised.

I look forward to crawling around in a better class of boat than you find at Toronto boat shows one day. I have some fairly set ideas of what constitutes "seaworthy" and some salesman barking "certified Lloyd Ocean A!" or something doesn't excuse 24 inch lifelines. Unless you are a wealthy, seagoing Munchkin, I suppose.
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