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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-09-2007 04:56 PM
sailingdog Capt. Stu-

I said:
If you're out in a storm like that by choice, you definitely qualify as a dummy.
I stand by this statement... that if you go out or stay out in weather like that BY CHOICE you are an unqualified idiot. By doing so, you put the good people that may respond to your calls for help at unnecessary risk. I didn't say that everyone out there was a dummy... just the ones who had a choice about being there and chose to stay or go out there.

If don't know the difference between making a choice to be out in a dangerous situation, which is clearly stupid behavior, and getting caught in it by accident, I'm pretty sure you'd be one of the ones choosing to go out in weather like that.
05-09-2007 04:07 PM
sailhog I'm in the they-did-the-best-with-the-information-they-had group -- at least until I hear a detailed debrief of what they knew and when they knew it. I'm a little surprised at the tougher minded points of view expressed here. In any case it's all interesting.
05-09-2007 03:52 PM
Pamlicotraveler I would think with 40 foot waves I would prefer to sail a few degrees off of the wind with a small amount of sail. With the wind so strong and the waves so large you would run the risk of getting caught beam to the waves and rolled if you heave-to.
05-09-2007 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by ccam
Hopefully, they were a student of Lynn and Larry Pardey.

Hey, I'm glad you brought them up, after the front that went threw a couple weeks back, I started looking for anything I could find on surviving a storm, a slip neighbor turned me onto to a video call Storm tactics by L & L Pardey.

They discribed the whole Hoove too procedure for heavy seas, but when they showed it in actual use it was in unrelatively calm waters.

So, the question is, has anybody been in a situation where they used this tactic, and if so, what were the sea conditions and how did it fair

and one other question, where would you draw the line at using this tactic
05-09-2007 12:16 PM
capt.stu sd
I bet your so good that when you sail,pompusness your boat it doesn't even get wet. Your pompusness, if it's a word, is really getting old.
How about cutting people some slack once in awhile.
05-09-2007 12:03 PM
Pamlicotraveler Hearing stories of what happened, and even speculation about what might have happened, allows us to plan for different circumstances. I particularly enjoyed reading all of the blogs by Skip & Lydia and the Flying Pig (Morgan 461) that beached in Marathon in February. Part of what I appreciated in their case was their willingness to admit and talk about their mistakes – and there were a number of them. It helped that they were both good writers. It was helpful to appreciate the range of emotions they felt; fear, despair, anger, hope, and appreciation.

I agree that mistakes were probably made by the boats this week. Or as has been mentioned, mistakes were made by their captains and some of the crew may have just been along for an unfortunate ride. But if we all wait until we are beyond making mistakes to venture out, we will never go. The weather can be a deadly enemy and when we go out we all know we could encounter danger of the highest order. It sounds like the weather was expected to be bad, but it probably exceeded the strength of the initial forecasts, and some might have realized they made a bad call.

I for one am trying to spend time getting to know weather patterns - what's predicted to happen and what could happen. Hopefully by doing that I reduce the chances of heading out into a disaster.
05-09-2007 10:54 AM
USCGRET1990 Unfortunately, when the Captain is a dummy, he can take alot of innocent people down with in point, Capt. Edward Smith of the RMS Titanic.
05-09-2007 01:10 AM
ccam Maybe out of turn.
We, all readers of sail net (including me) seem to assume the sailors knew the conditions as we know of now. Jesus Christ, not even the weather men can predict 3 days more that 50/50.
But, given what unknown sailors were thinking and doing at the time of the storm---Kinsabe!
I will assume they were using there best judgement, whether with barometer, compass and chart, or weather radar, chartplotter, and Bill Gatesís davy chest aboard, they would do their best to survive. DumAssís,,, I think not. How about, ďI didnít think it would get this ******* badĒ! hmm, I say that at least 5 times a year. Hopefully, they were a student of Lynn and Larry Pardey.
05-09-2007 12:33 AM
yotphix I'm not tired at all of discussion where there is some hope of learning something, just of blowhards calling people that they don't know, in situations they know little about, dummies, or stupid. It is good to talk about what went wrong and why. That's how the body of knowledge grows. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
05-09-2007 12:14 AM
camaraderie Yot... we all hope for good outcomes for anyone caught out at sea...but second guessing things is lots of fun especially when more facts come out and prove someone right or wrong.
I CAN tell you that no one belongs on diamond shoals on MONDAY when storms were predicted at LEAST 3-4 days earlier. Lots of sailors make bad decisions...hell...Donna Lange made a bad decision a couple of weeks back and she is MOST accommplished yet was lucky to survive.
I don't see anything wrong at all with saying "What WERE they thinking? How could they end up there??"
Here's another thought...XTR explains that they didn't hear till Friday. So what??...the winds and storm track were from the NORTH/West. Chris Parker was on the SSB telling people to head south to get out of the way. Could it be that DELIVERY boats like the 52 footer that is still missing face a choice between safety and a delivery schedule and made the wrong choice because they continue to push on until it is too late to make a choice?
These are things we should talk about here in my opinion. So...if you're tired of it...stop reading!
There are 2 ways to avoid making dumb decisions at sea. MAKE ONE really bad one OR read about decisions others have made and LEARN. Hopefully then we will make only SMALL dumb decisions!
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