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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Grampian G28
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-23-2009 10:18 AM
Canadasvt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramp34 View Post
I think people are using different definitions of "solid" in this discussion. The points Jeff raised about Grampians being inexpensive boats was certainly true -- they defined their market as entry level cruising boats. The former production manager at Grampian once told me that "We built Fords. If you came in and asked for a Lincoln, we'd send you next door to C&C." (A C&C production plant was literally next door to the Grampian plant in Oakville.)
Great info. Not sure about the location of C&C in Oakville. Was that not Ontario Yaughts on Speers Road next door to Grampian Marine, with C&C down the road a few clicks west on Wallace Road and Speers?
12-23-2009 10:10 AM
Canadasvt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
during the late 1970's when I had a deal with a fellow that I could use his Grampian 26 in exchange for teaching him to sail and maintaining his boat. There were several other Grampians in town and the owners all seemed to know each other and have similar kinds of problems and so I spent a lot of time on these boats trying to sort out poor build quality issues.
Jeff
What quality issues would that be? My only dealings with Grampian were in the Oakville outfit during the mid 70's until they went bankrupt. I did hear of problems with the U.S. plant.
06-12-2007 08:34 PM
LaPlaya In my experience (limited) the Grampians were built when the properties and strengthes of fiberglass were not all that well understood. It seems that the motto was more is better, therefore it was not uncommon to find them laid up with very thick skins and able to take incredible punnishment. A dream to sail never but...there are far worse Edsels out there IMHO
AL
06-12-2007 02:11 PM
sailingdog Tim-

I don't know what other people are using as a definition for solid...but yours looks alot like mine.
06-12-2007 01:34 PM
canadianseamonkey Well put Tim and thanks for the clarity. Perhaps people now will understand that if you're looking for a tough sailboat that will pound the waves, but has little bells and whistles, then the Grampian is in the running. The major issue I had with My G26 was her enability to point in the wind, beyond that she was great.
06-12-2007 01:02 PM
Gramp34 I had read a while ago that Grampian was the first Canadian production fiberglass boatbuilder, and knew that initially they were producing boats under license from others. I wasn't aware that two of their models were designed by C&C.

I think people are using different definitions of "solid" in this discussion. The points Jeff raised about Grampians being inexpensive boats was certainly true -- they defined their market as entry level cruising boats. The former production manager at Grampian once told me that "We built Fords. If you came in and asked for a Lincoln, we'd send you next door to C&C." (A C&C production plant was literally next door to the Grampian plant in Oakville.)

As production expanded in the 1970s, Grampian opened a plant in Edenton, NC. I've heard both that the Edenton plant did fiberglass molding, and that all the fiberglass was done in Oakville and just final assembly was done in Edenton. In any event, the boats put together in Edenton were known to have assembly quality problems. Jeff mentioned working on a lot of them, but didn't mention any fatal problems that led to scrapping boats. In the 30 years since then, I expect the problems on these boats would have been sorted out.

I certainly agree with the point that was made about the boats designed by Grampian having traded price and headroom for sailing ability. Grampian intentionally defined their market as economical cruisers, whereas C&C defined theirs as high performance boats. Different horses for different courses.

But coming back to the idea of whether the boats were "solid", in my mind sailing ability, initial assembly quality, number of standard features, headroom, etc., don't correlate to whether a boat is solidly built or not. (In fact, one could make a case that the boats with the greatest sailing performance are typically the lightest, most highly stressed and therefore the most fragile.)

The other day my wife pointed me to a Barvaria 40 being sold as salvage (YachtSalvage.com: ) It laid down on some sand and got only two holes 4" x 6" she said. Maybe we should buy it, patch it and make some money, she said... Check the Additional Photos link for more close-ups of the boat in the shop. It looks like they've ground back half the starboard hull under the waterline. Looks like a total constructive loss to me.

In contrast, the bottom of the Grampian history page (HISTORY OF GRAMPIAN MARINE) mentions a G30 that was grounded off Cape Hatteras and pounded for hours by a severe storm. When the tide returned the boat floated off with "the only damage sustained was some straining of the keel bolts!".

I can't find it now, but after Hurricane Juan hit Halifax in 2003, someone on the Grampian mailing list reported watching his G26 lose its docklines, beat against and sink two other sailboats on its way to being grounded on shore. After the storm passed, he had the boat pulled back into the water and tied it back up to his dock.

My definition of a "solid" boat is more along these lines than the features or sailing performance. Grampians weren't fancy boats, but they have a relatively high amount of strength in their design and construction.

Cheers,

Tim
06-12-2007 08:00 AM
Sailormann Have never seen or heard of a C&C 22. No mention of it anywhere... They did design the Viking 22, which was a reworking of the Classic 22, but built and sold by Ontario Yachts. The Bluejacket was commissioned and built by Paceship, a Nova Scotian firm. There were apparently some build issues with the US - produced Grampians in the late '70s. US production ceased in 1979.

Redwings were designed by C&C and built by Hinterhoeller in Niagara, Ontario. George Hinterhoeller had commissioned the design. Prior to 1970, Grampian produced the Classic 31, which was sold in kit form. It was designed by Peter van Dyne. The Grampian 30 was designed by Alex McGruer.
06-11-2007 10:45 AM
Jeff_H Tim: The two C&C designs built by Grampian was the Classic 22 (later sold as the C&C 22 and the Bluejacket) and the Redwing, the Grampian version was sold under another name that escapes me. The Redwing was being built by Bellevue Marine and by 1965 Grampian picked up construction in some kind of joint venture with Bellevue. I worked in the Grampian Booth during the 1965 NY Boat Show keeping the boats fresh, handing out literature on both C&C boats plus the Peter Van Dyne designed Classic 31 (which was commissioned by Henry Walton here in Annapolis and built by Grampian in three forms). I later owned a C&C Designed Grampian Classic 22.

My comments on the build and sailing quality came from my experiences with my own C&C 22 which was actually pretty well built for its day and my experioence with later Grampian models, most particularly during the late 1970's when I had a deal with a fellow that I could use his Grampian 26 in exchange for teaching him to sail and maintaining his boat. There were several other Grampians in town and the owners all seemed to know each other and have similar kinds of problems and so I spent a lot of time on these boats trying to sort out poor build quality issues.

Jeff
06-11-2007 09:20 AM
USCGRET1990 Bigger and more expensive, but another "good deal" perhaps?.. is this one:
NADA retail is $25k to $28k.
1979 Hunter 37-C sailboat
06-11-2007 12:07 AM
Sailormann They are well-built, durable boats...at the age now though where the degree of maintenance they have enjoyed may pretty well supersede the original build quality as a determinant of their structural integrity ...

From Canadian Yachting
Quote:
The Grampian 26 was designed by Alex McGruer in 1967. McGruer is part of a boatbuilding dynasty that reaches back to 1911, when the family business was located on the Clyde Estuary on the west coast of Scotland. The Grampian hills of his native land gave the name to this line of boats, which also includes the McGruer-designed 30-footer. Grampian Marine in Oakville, Ontario built most of these vessels, though some were built at Summerstown, east of Cornwall, Ontario. The boat was in production from 1967 through 1977, and according to McGruer, just over 1,000 Grampian 26s were built during that decade. (Nearly 200 were ordered during the first year alone.) Taddle Creek Yachts, of Toronto, tried unsuccessfully to revive interest in the design in 1987, but it seems new boat buyers were looking for a more modern design and there were no orders.
McGruer's design mandate had been for a comfortable family sailer, with six-foot headroom in the interior, and the berths for four (five if you squeeze two into the pull-out settee). She was to be strong and seaworthy, and trailerable - hence the swing-keel version. (The swing-keel has a draft of 3ft with the keel up, 6ft 6in with the keel down; fixed keel draft is 4ft 3in.)
The Grampian 26 was heavily built and, happily for their owners, no chronic problems have surfaced in the nearly quarter century since the first boat was launched.
In the past 24 years, this Canadian boat has been spotted in waters around the world. During one notable voyage an owner sailed from Lake Ontario to England and the Mediterranean, then returned to Canada via the Caribbean. Several of these boats have made good the trip through the Intra-Coastal Waterway to the Bahamas and the Caribbean, returning to their ports with a contented crew.
I have never heard the Grampian 26 described as a "pretty boat" but she is comfortable for her size. Overall length is exactly 26 feet and the beam stretches to 8ft 4in. Many owners describe her as the ideal minimum-sized boat for a cruising couple.
From the History of Grampian Marine
Quote:
...Grampian Marine Limited then began it’s own designs in response to substantial orders from other dealers in the US especially George Walton Yachts of Annapolis, Md.. These included the Classic 31 designed by a naval architect in Annapolis, Peter van Dyne, and the Sparkman and Stephens designed Classic 37. About thirty to forty of these boats were built before the sixties designs were dropped in favour of the newer fin keelboats.

Subsequently Grampian took on its own in-house designer Alex McGruer. Alex grew up within the bounds of McGruer & Co Ltd. - a family boat building business in Clydner on The Clyde established in 1911. He began his boat building apprenticeship there in 1943, training as draftsman, loftsman and finally yacht designer. Besides the admirals barge on the royal yacht Britannia, he was also involved in the design of the 8 metre racing yacht ‘Innismara’ which won the Lloyds Yacht of the Year award in the sixties. Alex McGruer II, M.S.N.A.M.E., was given the parameters to design boats with good sailing abilities and yet providing comfort. He began with the popular Grampian 26 followed by the G 30 and later the trailerable G 23.

Jim Bisiker has no records or a date of when the various boats were built or exact numbers made but does recall that the G 23 was not as successful as had been hoped – only about two to three hundred were built. The G 26 was more successful - about a thousand were made. The G 30 was also popular and about four hundred were built before the plant closed in the late ‘70’s. Also built was the G 34 - a modification of the Triangle 32.

Ewan Campbell joins

In 1972 Ewan Campbell, joined Grampian and was in charge of retail and dealer sales, customer relations, shipping, commissioning and service. He recalls the following more specific details:

Grampian Model Chronology
G 26 designed in 1969 about 980 built plus # 999 a special production order.
G 23 designed in 1972 - about 300 built.

G 28 designed in 1975 - 107 built – designed in house by Rolf van der Sleen with a view to competing in the half-ton racing class.
G 30 designed in 1969 about 350 built
G 30 Cutter rig designed in 1975 about 50 built
G 34 designed in 1973 about 50 built – based on the Triangle 32 and the design reworked in house by Axel Schmidt.
G 2-34 designed in 1974 about 50 built
G 46 designed in mid 60’s about 300 built – this began life as a 41 footer.
Discovery 7.9 completed in time for the 1975 Toronto Boat Show.

The Discovery 7.9 was based on the G 26 retaining the sweet hull lines but with a new, higher deck and coach roof – very few were built.

Ewan remained with Grampian until the end in the summer of 1977. Working for the receivers, he stayed on to complete some boats already under construction. At that time the G 28s were just taking off and tooling up was being started for the new McCurdy & Rhodes design Heritage 35 that had been built by a company in Rexdale, Ontario. About twenty had been built before Grampian bought the moulds and took on a couple of their key men before Grampian’s doors were closed.

Ewan feels that the future was looking good but refers to himself as ‘the last man out the door’! He recalls that Cape Dory bought the 28 and the 35 – the two newest designs.

Much of the Grampian production was destined for the US and a plant had been opened in North Carolina. The Woody Road, Oakville and the North Carolina plants both built the 26, 30 and the 34-foot designs. Only a couple of 46-foot boats were built in Oakville - the rest were built in N. Carolina....

...the main competition to Grampian was Pearson in the US and Whitby Boats in Canada. There was a time when George Cuthbertson of C & C approached Grampian to suggest a merger. C & C boats were of a racing design whereas Grampian was pursuing the cruising market. It seemed like a good partnership but nothing came of it.
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