|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|12-23-2009 10:18 AM|
Originally Posted by Gramp34 View Post
|12-23-2009 10:10 AM|
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
|06-12-2007 08:34 PM|
In my experience (limited) the Grampians were built when the properties and strengthes of fiberglass were not all that well understood. It seems that the motto was more is better, therefore it was not uncommon to find them laid up with very thick skins and able to take incredible punnishment. A dream to sail never but...there are far worse Edsels out there IMHO
|06-12-2007 02:11 PM|
I don't know what other people are using as a definition for solid...but yours looks alot like mine.
|06-12-2007 01:34 PM|
|canadianseamonkey||Well put Tim and thanks for the clarity. Perhaps people now will understand that if you're looking for a tough sailboat that will pound the waves, but has little bells and whistles, then the Grampian is in the running. The major issue I had with My G26 was her enability to point in the wind, beyond that she was great.|
|06-12-2007 01:02 PM|
I had read a while ago that Grampian was the first Canadian production fiberglass boatbuilder, and knew that initially they were producing boats under license from others. I wasn't aware that two of their models were designed by C&C.
I think people are using different definitions of "solid" in this discussion. The points Jeff raised about Grampians being inexpensive boats was certainly true -- they defined their market as entry level cruising boats. The former production manager at Grampian once told me that "We built Fords. If you came in and asked for a Lincoln, we'd send you next door to C&C." (A C&C production plant was literally next door to the Grampian plant in Oakville.)
As production expanded in the 1970s, Grampian opened a plant in Edenton, NC. I've heard both that the Edenton plant did fiberglass molding, and that all the fiberglass was done in Oakville and just final assembly was done in Edenton. In any event, the boats put together in Edenton were known to have assembly quality problems. Jeff mentioned working on a lot of them, but didn't mention any fatal problems that led to scrapping boats. In the 30 years since then, I expect the problems on these boats would have been sorted out.
I certainly agree with the point that was made about the boats designed by Grampian having traded price and headroom for sailing ability. Grampian intentionally defined their market as economical cruisers, whereas C&C defined theirs as high performance boats. Different horses for different courses.
But coming back to the idea of whether the boats were "solid", in my mind sailing ability, initial assembly quality, number of standard features, headroom, etc., don't correlate to whether a boat is solidly built or not. (In fact, one could make a case that the boats with the greatest sailing performance are typically the lightest, most highly stressed and therefore the most fragile.)
The other day my wife pointed me to a Barvaria 40 being sold as salvage (YachtSalvage.com: ) It laid down on some sand and got only two holes 4" x 6" she said. Maybe we should buy it, patch it and make some money, she said... Check the Additional Photos link for more close-ups of the boat in the shop. It looks like they've ground back half the starboard hull under the waterline. Looks like a total constructive loss to me.
In contrast, the bottom of the Grampian history page (HISTORY OF GRAMPIAN MARINE) mentions a G30 that was grounded off Cape Hatteras and pounded for hours by a severe storm. When the tide returned the boat floated off with "the only damage sustained was some straining of the keel bolts!".
I can't find it now, but after Hurricane Juan hit Halifax in 2003, someone on the Grampian mailing list reported watching his G26 lose its docklines, beat against and sink two other sailboats on its way to being grounded on shore. After the storm passed, he had the boat pulled back into the water and tied it back up to his dock.
My definition of a "solid" boat is more along these lines than the features or sailing performance. Grampians weren't fancy boats, but they have a relatively high amount of strength in their design and construction.
|06-12-2007 08:00 AM|
Have never seen or heard of a C&C 22. No mention of it anywhere... They did design the Viking 22, which was a reworking of the Classic 22, but built and sold by Ontario Yachts. The Bluejacket was commissioned and built by Paceship, a Nova Scotian firm. There were apparently some build issues with the US - produced Grampians in the late '70s. US production ceased in 1979.
Redwings were designed by C&C and built by Hinterhoeller in Niagara, Ontario. George Hinterhoeller had commissioned the design. Prior to 1970, Grampian produced the Classic 31, which was sold in kit form. It was designed by Peter van Dyne. The Grampian 30 was designed by Alex McGruer.
|06-11-2007 10:45 AM|
Tim: The two C&C designs built by Grampian was the Classic 22 (later sold as the C&C 22 and the Bluejacket) and the Redwing, the Grampian version was sold under another name that escapes me. The Redwing was being built by Bellevue Marine and by 1965 Grampian picked up construction in some kind of joint venture with Bellevue. I worked in the Grampian Booth during the 1965 NY Boat Show keeping the boats fresh, handing out literature on both C&C boats plus the Peter Van Dyne designed Classic 31 (which was commissioned by Henry Walton here in Annapolis and built by Grampian in three forms). I later owned a C&C Designed Grampian Classic 22.
My comments on the build and sailing quality came from my experiences with my own C&C 22 which was actually pretty well built for its day and my experioence with later Grampian models, most particularly during the late 1970's when I had a deal with a fellow that I could use his Grampian 26 in exchange for teaching him to sail and maintaining his boat. There were several other Grampians in town and the owners all seemed to know each other and have similar kinds of problems and so I spent a lot of time on these boats trying to sort out poor build quality issues.
|06-11-2007 09:20 AM|
Bigger and more expensive, but another "good deal" perhaps?.. is this one:
NADA retail is $25k to $28k.
1979 Hunter 37-C sailboat
|06-11-2007 12:07 AM|
They are well-built, durable boats...at the age now though where the degree of maintenance they have enjoyed may pretty well supersede the original build quality as a determinant of their structural integrity ...
From Canadian Yachting
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