|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|04-10-2013 08:46 PM|
Re: Yanmar 2GMF starter solenoid
For my 3gm30f the root cause was the starter key mechanism. I never would have suspected that part, but it finally broke completely. After replacing the part the engine suddenly starts instantly every time. I suspect that the internal resistance of the switch increased to the point that the circuit would only intermittently trip the starter.
|04-09-2008 12:12 PM|
|sailingdog||If the foam disintegrated and got sucked into the engine..chances are more than even that it burned up quite nicely in the cylinders.|
|04-09-2008 11:53 AM|
Air Filter Disintegration
Someone earlier in this thread mention that the air filter can disentegrate and get sucked into the engine. I suspect this may have happened to us. When we went to replace the air filter this spring all we found was the metal part, no foam.
What happens if it did get sucked into the engine? What do I need to check for / clean?
Thanks for your help.
|10-29-2007 12:39 PM|
I have the exact same problem with my Universal M-15 (5411) engine. Pressing the start button gives me nothing but a single click from the starter. After repeating this 4 or 5 times, the starter will engage.
This may not be a problem that's unique to Yanmar but one that hits all boats of a certain age. I was thinking of replacing the starter, but after reading this post, I think I'll try these ideas first. Thanks guys!
|10-29-2007 10:15 AM|
Yanmar starting problems!!! Reams have been posted on this subject. It is seldom the solenoid, usually the contacts. I'll attach all I've collected on this subject. Have had three Yanmars, all had this problem. Sorry can't attribute the stuff because I collected it over the years. Couldn't upload so I'll copy it.
Don't swap starters. It's not the problem.
Sitting next to the starter are two molded connectors. The larger one has two larger pins in it. Spread the pins back apart. There is a similar connector about a foot off of the panel. Do the same there.
This is a normal problem with the older Yanmar panels and harnesses.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: hard starting Reply with quote
The problem with aging Yanmars not engaging the starter is the wiring. Adding a relay to the starter solves the problem. You can use a continuous duty marine solenoid from West Marine or pick one up at NAPA for the purpose.
The solenoid should have four posts, two high amp, two low amp. On the low amp circuit, connect the starter key wire to one post, and ground the second post. Enaging the key will trip this circuit. On the high amp side, connect a #8 guage wire from the solenoid to the battey/alternator post on the starter motor. Then from the second high amp post run a #8 guage wire back to the post on the starter where the wire from the key originally came from.
Engaging the key will trip the low amp circuit which in turm engages the high amp connection which gives you a very healthy current to the starter solenoid.
Another thing you can do is add a remote start switch (for example near the engine) by connecting a second switch (make sure it is fused) beyween the battery side of the high amp circuit on the solenoid and the key side of the low amp circuit.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: starter problem Reply with quote
I had the same problem--each time I heard a click from the starter, but it wouldn't start turning the motor. I had to hit the start button multiple times, and eventually it would start. Last year I bought a new starter and replaced it, but still had the same problem. Then I read some of the other posts that mentioned that the wires were not sufficiently thick to handle the current from the switch to the solenoid, and they recommended putting in a second solenoid. I found it hard to believe that this would work because the wire seems to be around 12 gauge already which you would think is sufficient, but I figured I'd try it and I purchased a solenoid model COLE HERSEE 24117-01-BP 201337 from west marine, and installed it yesterday. I used thick cables 4 gauge from the battery switch to the solenoid, and 10 gauge from the solenoid to the starter (although you may want to go to 4 gauge for both). Then tested it 4 times-- each time the engine started on the first try. So this fixed my problem.
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Sorry to continue this thread on the Yanmar starting problem, but I'm 12 volt challenged as well, and a bit confused on how to rewire the problem away.
My 1988 IP31 has the 3GM30F engine, and I've had this oft-described starting problem for most of this boats life. I'm in agreement that the under spec'd wiring harness is the problem, and I would throw in the cheap 30 amp fuse holder, that appears to be 16 gauge wire between the 10 or 12 gauge wiring running from the key switch to the starter solenoid. I bought the Cole Hersee #24117 solenoid, and after tracing my wiring from starter button, key switch, alternator and starter solenoid, and then reviewing the wiring setup from "dgrosz" (4/23/05), and "mjs2" (5/26/05), I'm still confused.
"mjs2" is running a wire from the "battery switch" (?) to the solenoid. I assume he meant the starter key switch. "dgrosz" describes grounding the CH solenoid on one low post, then connect the other low post to the starter key (assume at the red wire post). Then from the CH high post, run a wire to the starter solenoid post where the current red fused wire and battery cable terminal are attached. That would replace the red wire running up to the starter solenoid, via the questionable wiring harness and fuse connector. He then connects the other high post on the CH solenoid to the alternator battery ("BAT") terminal. I see were this takes the red wire and its fuse from the wiring harness out of the mix. I also assume that the existing starter solenoid mounted on the starter stays in place. Neither really states that. I assume the CH solenoid and heavier wire (I'll use 8 gauge) is doing nothing more than to get away from the wiring harness (at least the red wire key-to-starter solenoid part of it). If I'm correct up to this point, it would appear to me that I need to remove the red wire running from the alternator/BAT terminal to the battery power terminal on the existing starter solenoid. Do I have this right ? Are there different wiring harnesses by boat manufacturer ? (Note, a 1987 Cal 33 in my boat yard has same engine and wiring harness, and the same problem) If I'm wrong, can someone describe the setup simply for a boat with the Yanmar panel with a starter button and key switch ? Up here in RI, I will not be firing up the engine for another couple of weeks, and would like to avoid blowing out something.
Starter switch wiring...
This seems to be a common problem on Yanmars. I have it from time-to-time on my 4 cylinder 4JH-TE. I have done a whole bunch of research on it, and the general consensus is that the problem is caused by the wiring to the starter solenoid.
Yanmar starter solenoids have two windings, a high current coil that pulls the solenoid in (and then is turned off), and a lower current "holding" coil that holds the plunger in place. The result is a brief high current spike that happens as you push the starter button.
If the wiring to the starter button is too long, too smaller gage, or the starter switch has developed some contact resistance, the added resistance will not allow sufficient current through the solenoid to pull-in adequately during the initial current spike (Ohm's Law).
The general consensus (which I have not yet adopted) is to install an automotive type relay close to the engine, and use heavier gage wire from the battery, through the relay contacts, to the starter solenoid. In other words, the starter switch merely closes the relay, which then supplies the initial current surge through a low resistance path.
Whether this is your problem I can't say, but there are numerous threads around on various forums that indicate that this is the fix.
It's on my "to-do" list...
For the last few years I have had an intermittent starting problem. The boat would start every time while at the dock, while hooked into shore power. However, when out on the water for an hour or so, the boat may start or may not. I would then shut down all instruments, fridge, cabin lights or anything else that was ?on?. After a few minutes the boat might start or might not start. I started keeping track of temperature, humidity, length of time off the dock, etc. ? I couldn?t find a pattern. It was very frustrating; a few times I would have to wait 15 minutes before it would start.
I had the same problem this weekend in Raritan Bay, filled to the gills with fishing boats and then the wind died off, the perfect time to start the engine and dodge the always moving fishing boats. When I pushed the start button ? nothing! I had even removed the power for the fans and dash ? figuring I would get more power to the starter solenoid?still nothing. I was done; it had to be fixed ASAP.
I read several dozen articles regarding this problem, some of which suggested grinding down the pins on the starter and starter solenoid. Others, suggested it was due to corrosion on the wires in the starting loop, key switch, momentary on (push button) and the wire leading to the starter solenoid. I found no corrosion and replaced both the key start and push button ? no success, I still had starting problems. There were still more articles blaming the problem on the batteries - new AGM batteries installed and I still have the problem....
The solution: replace the 12 awg wire with a 10 awg wire from the key switch to the push button and replace the second 12 awg from push button to the starter solenoid. It was real easy and once you have all the necessary replacement parts, it takes about 15 minutes to fix.
From the key switch there is a 10 awg wire coming in, on the other terminal there are three wires, a solid red, red with black stripe and white. The red with black stripe and solid red are for powering the fans and dash (alarm, lights and gauges). The white runs to the momentary on with another white 12 awg wire, from the second terminal, running to the starter solenoid. The first step was to fish, using an electricians ?fish tape?, the wire through the console to the aft section of the boat. After fishing the wire thru, the connections were simple, 4 10-12 awg connectors with 8 awg rings.
I left the boat on for about an hour, with everything ?on? (water pumps, anchor lights, all cabin lights, radio?s, hot water heater, autopilot, etc). The boat started three times with ease. The true test will come later this week when I am out for a two hour sail and she either starts or doesn?t on the first try!
GM Starting Problems QED
As I had documented in an earlier post, I had intermittent starting problems, when you hit the push button to start the engine, nothing would happen. The solution was to replace the 12AWG wires from the key switch to the push button and from the push button to the starter solenoid with 10AWG wires.
I had the boat out recently and the problem seems to be resolved. I actually started the boat several times during a recent cruise. It’s really nice to know that you engine is there right when you need it.
Chris - the 8AWG ring connector is a size measurement – you have a 10AWG wire connection with an 8AWG ring connector, if the ring connector is to big you won’t get “full” contact on the keyed and push button wire posts.
beneteau393 : Beneteau393 Group
|10-29-2007 07:04 AM|
|wnor||I had the same problem as in Post #1 with my Yanmar 3GM: pressing the start button always caused the solenoid to click but energized the starter only about once in five tries. I replaced the solenoid, blah, blah, blah. The problem was as follows: The Yanmar wiring schematic calls for a white wire in the wiring harness from the start button to the solenoid. On my boat someone interrupted that wire and spliced in leads that led to a microswitch in the "all-in-one" throttle/transmission control. The idea was to prevent starts with the transmission in gear. A good idea, but poorly executed: the spliced wiring and microswitch were too wimpy to carry the current necessary to reliably drive the solenoid piston all the way home such that the starter contacts closed. I restored the wiring to Yanmar's specifications, and the engine now fires up every time the start button is pushed. HTH.|
|06-20-2007 12:27 PM|
Carefully look for a fuse on the solenoid circuit.
Typical small Yanmars QMs, GMs etc. usually had a fuse on the solenoid circuit. Usually this is mounted on the aft portside of the engine ... and is very subject to corrosion in the wiring / connectors because the components were not tinned. What happens is that with a few trial attempts of starting, the corrosion in the fuse body/holder heats up and dries out the corrosion enough lower the resistance to allow enough current to flow to energize the solenoid coils.
Next time the engine doest want to start.... open the engine cover, locate the solenoid and with an insulated screwdriver simply short/jump between the large HOT battery terminal and the smaller wire from the control panel. If the 'shorting' between these two terminals immediately *engages the solenoid and the engine starts* (dont get you clothing, etc. caught in the 'moving parts' when doing this) .... then you have HIGH RESISTANCE in the solenoid control circuit (usually a corroded fuse/holder). If you actually have one of these notorious engine mounted fuse holder ... entirely replace it (dont waste your time trying to clean it) and replace the whole wiring (with 'tinned' wire) all the way back to the panel mounted 'start' button.
I'll offer odds that corrosion & high resistance in the solenoid energizing circuit (usually the fuse holder) is your problem as this is common/notorious on small Yanmars.
|06-20-2007 11:42 AM|
It has been my experience with 1 and 2 cylinder Yanmars and Universals that the hand crank is just to give you something to do while you wait for the wind to come up.
Seriously I have never been able to get a cold engine to start with a crank. On my current 2GMF when I turn the key on some times it does not make contact so I try it again till it does and then the starter button will work. I am sure it is either a defective key swtich or wiring to the starter button as stated above. Some day I will check it out and fix it. Probably right after it lets me dwon when I really need it.
|06-20-2007 10:55 AM|
I think most sailboat installations/environments tend to be pretty darn clean. This being the case for us, I took my disintegrated filter and cleaned away the remainder of the foam material with a brass wire brush. You are left with just the coarse metal cone which should suffice to keep the big chunks out.
Never tried the hand-crank start, but previous experience with on our Laser 28 with a single cylinder Bukh, we could only start it with the flywheel pulley and decompression lever if the engine was warm. Cold start, no way. If you had a way to heat the up the cylinders and intake region.
Up here in the chilly north of Georgian Bay, I know a few folk with worn diesels who manage to get them going on a frosty Autumn morning by first "pre-heating" by blowing in warm air using a hair drier.
By the looks of your photo, air temperature is not a problem where you sail
|06-19-2007 07:47 PM|
1. My 2GM20F air filter disintegrated after 3 years. What a fine mess. Any solution for this ?
2. When I first got my boat, I ordered & install parts for the hand crank (fearing I would ran out of battery juice when out there). Thru these 5 years, NEVER had I managed to crank start the engine even after following some instructions from someone experienced in crank starting it. Any suggestions ?
H326, SV Millennium-2
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