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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Buyers Broker.
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Thread: Buyers Broker. Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-28-2007 12:56 AM
SimonV
Quote:
Originally Posted by bestfriend
My advice to you is to not get a broker, work for yourself. I will do what I can to help you if there are boats here you would like to know about.
Thanks BF that’s what I was hopping for, and now I have got it in writing

I have narrowed it down to an Islander 36, and for some unknown reason most are in the San Francisco area. If some thing nice turns up while I am there , well nothing is in concrete.

As for the broker thing, it is all common sense; I just needed for others to confirm my feelings.
06-27-2007 07:47 PM
PBzeer I'll relate my experience with my purchase, though I don't know how common it is.

Finding a boat on Yachtworld, I contacted the broker, and talked with one of the brokers there who was NOT the selling broker. I don't know if he made anything off the commision for the sale, but, I was not charged for his assistance, which proved to be of great help. He not only helped me during the bargining process, but also after the sale, and even allowed me to make several major purchases using his Port Supply Card (West Marine at discount).

He wasn't actively looking for a boat for me, but did have some recommendations if the boat didn't pass survey, from their listings. As I said, I don't know how common this might be, but it sure worked well for me.

Currently at 36 03 21 N 76 36 37 W
06-27-2007 07:05 PM
bestfriend Simon - I don't know the rep of that broker. I would NEVER use the broker's surveyor. I did, and I am paying for it. Find someone like Paul, the guy all the brokers hate. Thats the kind of survey you want. Of all the brokers I met here when looking for my boat, only one took the initiative to keep in touch with me and present boats that he found around the Bay. That was Chuck at McGrath yachts in Sausalito. McGrath Yacht Sales Just remember, it is they make money by selling boats, they are working for themselves, not you or the other broker, no matter what. Brokers like it when you come in without your own broker, that way they get all the money. My advice to you is to not get a broker, work for yourself. I will do what I can to help you if there are boats here you would like to know about.
06-27-2007 03:57 PM
cardiacpaul Maybe that's the salesdroid's way of making sure you won't be used by buyers?

no, not that I know of. Most of my bidness come via word of mouth & referrals.

Look, this is an incestous little industry, very few real "players", and quite a few wannabe's and some just looking to spend time on the water by any route.

Use the spagetti analogy, when it hits the wall, the good stuff sticks and the meatballs fall.

I know a broker that I would trust with the cuban out to dinner. He's never recommended me for a survey, but, I've swung a lot of business his way because he knows what he's doing, doesn't screw with clients, and if a fellow comes to him with a boat thats a piece of crap, he'll tell the guy just that, and tell him to take a walk.

Another broker is also a surveyor, and he's found that both ends of his business have fallen off, because he can't be all things to all people. (he also gets really pissed when he gets told by a prospective buyer that he wants a different survey)

I've also had a fleeting thought about becoming a "buyers broker". Hmmm, I'm not so sure I'd be any good at it.
I can see it now, Mr. Gotbucks strolls up and sez...
Hey there, I want a 40ft sailboat, a ketch, maybe a bermuda sloop. I want to take it to trinidad, but it has to have a swim platform and a really big cockpit. It needs to sleep 6, carry a couple of dogs, w wife, and a chick I'm seeing on the sly. What do you think of those Hunters.
06-27-2007 10:16 AM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul
I have been called an "anal-retentive *****" by one sales wonk. LOL, yea, thats my job.
That's what I want for a surveyor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul
I have also been old by a prospective buyer that a salesperson told them after the survey that he "would" recommend me but, trouble is nobody takes a sales guys recommendation for a surveyor.
Maybe that's the salesdroid's way of making sure you won't be used by buyers?
06-27-2007 08:44 AM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul
I have been called an "anal-retentive *****" by one sales wonk. LOL, yea, thats my job.
Yup...that was pretty obvious...
06-27-2007 01:45 AM
cardiacpaul I know more than a couple of "brokers-boat-sales-guys".
Some of them are very knowledgeable, some have been in the business for years and don't know stem from stern.

I haven't had too many bad expereinces with them, most of them know mw, I don't know if they respect me or not.
(my self esteem is not contingent upon their opinion)

Some are little more than used car salesman in deck shoes.

getting to the point.
I have been called an "anal-retentive *****" by one sales wonk. LOL, yea, thats my job.
I have also been old by a prospective buyer that a salesperson told them after the survey that he "would" recommend me but, trouble is nobody takes a sales guys recommendation for a surveyor.
06-26-2007 11:18 AM
sailingfool
Never use a broker's recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMIJim
....I may use a broker-recommended surveyor if I knew the broker well and felt I could trust them implicitly. (Like I did my real estate agent.) Otherwise I'd try to find my own.

Jim
Absolutely never rely on a broker for a surveyor recommendation.

A good broker should give you the names of several good surveyors, but I personally would never expect them to give you the names of the few excellent surveyors. Brokers know who the excellent surveyors are, because those surveyors "screw up" half the deals they come into, to the endless consternation and cost for the sellers, and any broker, even the best, would not want to see them like death.

I've regularly used a home inspector that the area RE agents call "Doctor Doom". He is a certified engineer of extraordinary knowledge and high hourly billing rate, I've used him five times, including two offers which were withdrawn due to fatal conditions that the typical home inspector would not have found (i.e. a 20 year old home that had no occupancy permit on file...most home inspectors assume that something required long ago happened and don't got to city hall to check). You can bet no RE broker ever recommends Doctor Doom.
06-26-2007 11:07 AM
sailingfool
never seen a buyer's broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
It depends.... some brokers are highly ethical, and if retained by the buyer, ... Others, who are less ethical, will try and close the sale regardless of what is in the buyer's interest. ....As for surveyors, I would look to get a truly independent survey, rather than one done by the brokerage, even if said brokerage is nominally working for you. It would be one more check and balance to the boat buying process for you.
I have never seen a buyers broker in the yacht business, doesn't mean there are none, I've just never seen one...I did a Google search, and come up with links like this Yacht brokerage, discount yacht charters yacht ownership | Sailonline.com while it lists valid reasons for buying through a broker who services you, calling this person a buyer's broker is a play on words, the underlaying relationship is the same it has been for years.
A buyer DOES NOT RETAIN a broker, the seller has retained the "listing" broker, and any broker you happen to deal with becomes the "selling" broker, also representing the seller.

So don't be confused that both brokers aren't working for the other guy.. Nonetheless, I do believe that a good broker is extremely valuable to a boat search and should be relied on to help find you what you want, you just need to remember he/she has mixed motivations. But a good broker will hustle for a buyer and provide their expertise to his benefit, because if he does not, the buyer can and should move on to work with someone else. "Your" broker can be a great asset and friend, just remember he's getting paid by the seller... and you need to take his advice with care.
06-26-2007 10:37 AM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
It depends.... some brokers are highly ethical, and if retained by the buyer, will represent the buyer's interests, much like a realtor in the US real estate market.
Careful with that bit about realtors! It's not necessarily accurate. In fact: In many states the law specifically was, and may still be, that licensed real estate agents always represent the seller, regardless of who contacted them. For example: At the time I bought my home, 15 years ago, here in Michigan, I had a particular real estate agent "working for me." But, legally speaking, tho she found me the house, she arranged to relay my offer to the seller's agent, she guided the entire process from my end, she was actually working for the seller. That was the way the law read. A Michigan real estate agent could lose their license for the most minor of infractions of doing anything that put, or appeared to put, the buyers interests ahead of the sellers. (One friends wife had her license suspended for simply conveying a water test sample to the lab for the buyer.) In fact: When there were two agents involved, one contacted by the seller to get their home listed and the other by a buyer looking for a home, they were referred-to as the "listing agent" and the "selling agent."

I believe Michigan real estate law has since changed, and now true "buyer's agents" are possible. I believe the same is true of some other states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Others, who are less ethical, will try and close the sale regardless of what is in the buyer's interest.
I would be cautious anytime somebody stood to profit from my spending money .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
I don't know if the boat brokerage market has developed the same highly refined agreements that real estate has, and whether it includes protection for the buyer, in the case that the broker they've hired has a boat under representation that may be of interest—where they are the seller's broker. I don't believe this is yet the case, so you would have to look at the wording of the agreement you sign very closely.
Definitely.

Btw: With real estate, it's not just "highly refined agreements," but state licensing boards. I don't know if any state licenses boat brokers or brokerages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
As for surveyors, I would look to get a truly independent survey, rather than one done by the brokerage, even if said brokerage is nominally working for you. It would be one more check and balance to the boat buying process for you.
I would tend to concur with this.

I may use a broker-recommended surveyor if I knew the broker well and felt I could trust them implicitly. (Like I did my real estate agent.) Otherwise I'd try to find my own.

Jim
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