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Should I be worried?

5K views 41 replies 22 participants last post by  LaPlaya 
#1 ·
This past week-end, I was working on my boat up on Lake Erie and I noticed three guys on an old Allied Seacraft (I think) in the transient slip down the dock. They were having a pretty good time drinking beer and trying to figure out how to rig the boat. Statements like "If that rope goes there, were does this rope go?" and "I don't think this wire should be around this round thing." led me to believe this was a new purchase by some new "sailors". Anyway, after a while, one of them stumbled over and stared at my boat and made a comment about my main halyard, which went something like, "Your rope for your big sail is pretty long; the one on our boat is attached to a wire and when we raise the sail, we run out of rope." Now, I am far from an seasoned, experienced blue water sailor, but I told him I would stop over and see if I could figure it out. It turns out that they were trying to use the topping lift for the main halyard. The owner made a comment that he got the boat at a good price and they were going to sail it to Auglaize, Michigan over the next four days. They were sure they would make it before the beer ran out. He also made the statement that if they sound like they don't know a lot about sailing, its because they don't. He did say he owned a 27' boat before buying this one. I told him he would be smart to sail during the day and stay within sight of land.

So, at around 8:00PM Saturday night, they yell over to me that they are going out into Sandusky Harbor to "try things out" before they leave Sunday morning. The last thing the owner yells is "If we don't come back, send someone after us!!! Ha-ha-ha." Having worked on my boat all day, I fell asleep around 9:30 and when I woke up in the middle of the night, I thought I'd check to see if beer drinkers were back in their slip. They were not. I thought they may have decided to make their way towards Detroit and anchor for the night. However, the next morning when I was more lucid, I thought maybe I should have notified the Coast Guard about them. I listened all day Sunday to the local news and didn't hear any reports of distressed boaters on the lake. My question is, should I have called somebody in the middle of the night to let them know about these guys? What was my responsibility in this situation?
 
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#4 ·
Something very similar happened to me a couple of years ago. I returned to my slip after an evening sail to find a few college age guys working on an Oday 22 a couple of slips away. They had just bought the boat and wanted to talk about how little they had paid for it, and what a great time they were going to have over the summer. One of them asked me, "so we can make it to Newport from here in a day, right?" I was a bit surprised at the question, because Newport is a long, two day sail under the best of circumstances for a boat that small. I started to get even more concerned when they said they would motor if the wind died, and they had no idea how big their gas tank was (only three gallons, and they had no other containers). I spent the next hour showing them how to set up their rig and tune the shrouds and generally make their boat ready for sea; they had installed the boom vang as their mainsheet and had no idea what the mainsheet blocks were for, or how to set up and use the jiffy reefing. They had no charts, no radio, no food or water aboard. One of them had experience with bigger sailboats (or so he said), but they were all generally clueless and as sure of their immortality as only 20 year olds can be. They had to be gone from the dock by noon the next day because they didn't want to pay any fees to the marina. Anyway, by the time I left, I think I convinced them they needed to buy some water jugs, charts, and an extra gas tank before they left. I have no idea whatever happened to them.

The next day or so, I posted an email on another sailing website almost identical to yours: should I have done more? The consensus was that I had done all I could, and that I can't be responsible for others' foolish choices. Besides, someone pointed out, even if I were to call the Coast Guard, what would I tell them? "Keep on the lookout for a bunch of college students in a small, white sloop. I think they're incompentent sailors"? How helpful. I am curious to see what others think of your predicament.
 
#6 ·
A "hey, be aware of this craft" might be in order

I am not experienced with U.S. coast guard protocol; however I think in the same situation I might have noted the craft name (and registration numbers) and given a heads up to the coast guard or marina personnel as an FYI to them indicating their general direction and possible destination. I would be very surprised if they would not be appreciative, as it could save them time if a mayday went out. In my hiking experience I have run across similar situations of ill equipped and ill prepared people doing things they had no idea could potentially put them in grave danger. I have always made an effort to be sure "somebody" knew they were out there. In at least 1 instance I am aware of, this action saved a life, or at least a potentially frozen limb. I would hope someone would do the same for me.
 
#7 ·
"If we don't come back, send someone after us!!! Ha-ha-ha."
Just based on the obvious and the comment above, I would have given a heads up to the locals or CG or both

Whenever someone tells me what their plan is, especially when followed by the insecure laughter, I take it as an informal sail plan and I do keep my eyes and ears open.

Believe me, there seems to be a major influx in new boat, new sailor right now and some of them are down right scary
 
#9 ·
Holy smokes! Must be the immortality of youth at work. I can't imagine attempting such a trip with such poor preparation.

Hell, my wife and I both have past sailing experience (well, mine's more crewing than sailing); we're going to be taking ASA 101 and 103 next weekend; there'll be a GPS/chartplotter, backup hand-held GPS and charts aboard; the PO has offered to accompany us partway, and it's a relatively straight-forward route, and still we're toying with the idea of hiring a transportation captain to get our new-to-us boat home.

Maybe we're just overly cautious. Or maybe, with so many more years under our belts, we're just a bit more aware that mortality is a very real thing.

Jim
 
#11 ·
Primerate,
Don't beat yourself up too much. You faced somewhat of a dilema. If you felt you must act, maybe the best time and place might have been before the departure of the booze cruise and on the dock. The authority to notify in that case would probably have been the police and not the coast gaurd. The dilema, as I see it, is this; you are worried about the safety of these people because you are obviously a compassionate person, but being so you don't neccessarily want to "rat out " a group of young sailors to the cops for drinking beer and messing around in boats (hell, half of the boating fraternity could be led away in handcuffs for that). Maybe a discrete request to the local coast gaurd unit to walk down the dock before departure and do a "routine" safety inspection on the vessel was in order. Anyway, I think that your concern is refreshing.
 
#12 ·
I want to say thanks. As one who learned the difference between a halyard and a mainsheet not long ago, thanks for taking the time to give us a few pointers.

On the other hand. The scenario that opened this thread is definately disconcerting. I would agree that Pirmerate definately did more than his fair share. As long as people can buy boats without a license (which I am so far in favor of) there will always be someone trying to do what they are completely unprepared for.

I am mostly on smaller inland lakes and as such I have no idea what resources are available for coastal safety. How would someone contact the CG? Or is there usually some staff in a marina to notify?
 
#15 ·
These guys were not young pups...

I may have given the impression that these guys were right out of college. That may have given them some level of excuse, but these guys were in their late 40s, early 50s. My guess is the total IQ on that boat couldn't have exceeded 200, 210 at best.
 
#16 ·
If the weather was reasonably calm, it seems that they would have survived long enough to sober up and kick themselves for being so stupid and unprepared. I've been approached on several occasions by motorboat friends and acquaintances who were about to take an extended trip on their vessel. I always ask them if they have a radio onboard, and the answer is almost always "no." When they inevitably ask me why they should have one, I simply tell them: "To communicate your peril."
 
#17 ·
They're fortunate in that either the Allied Seawind or Seabreeze, both seaworthy and well-built, will probably take care of them.

If you'd called the Coast Guard, they might have done a "precom" check by phone or radio to see if the boat had shown up in any of the usual harbors. But I wouldn't beat myself up if I were you. Was the weather fair? If so, they're probably all right.

Next time you're nearby, let us know they made it in okay. At least they picked a good, tough boat to be idiots in. Robin Lee Graham, a teenager, sailed one of these about halfway 'round the world after his 24' sloop was just too small and slow...
 
#18 ·
If you call the Coast Guard yourself and tell them that the seas are large and you don't know where you are and don't know if you can find your next port and your twenty miles offshore........ chances are there response is going to be,
"What are you doing out there?"
"What would you like us to do about it?"
"Your the one who chose to go out, now get your self back."

My point is, the Coast Guard is not always going to bail you out when you get yourself in trouble. If your in a life threatening situation, they will be there in a heartbeat. If your stupid, well than your just on your own.
 
#19 ·
sailhog said:
If the weather was reasonably calm, it seems that they would have survived long enough to sober up and kick themselves for being so stupid and unprepared. I've been approached on several occasions by motorboat friends and acquaintances who were about to take an extended trip on their vessel. I always ask them if they have a radio onboard, and the answer is almost always "no." When they inevitably ask me why they should have one, I simply tell them: "To communicate your peril."
I used to do a lot of backcountry skiing in the Rockies and I took an avalanche course one time. When we did "peep" practice (transponders) the instructor gave us some sobering advice - "The purpose of the peeps is not to make it safe to ski in an avalanche prone area. It's to save time so your friends won't get hypothermia while they are looking for your body."
 
#20 ·
mstern, Not only do I think I know who you are talking about but I think I owned that boat after the idiots almost sank it. Just a guess but did you run into them in the Hew Haven CT area? If so...they did not die, Darwin was wrong.

As far as reporting something to the locals or Coast Guard, YES you need to. If something seems wrong chances are it is wrong and you have a moral and legal responsibility to report it.
 
#22 ·
Arbarnhart, I'm from Steamboat Springs and I can't recall how many times I've heard that admonition. What I don't understand is this: Why is it that nothing ever seems to happen to the stupid ones? The old man who taught me to sail shared this with me: There's no joy in being a sloppy sailor.
 
#23 ·
I guess I never been drunk, because if I was I don't see how you would walk around on a boat or even get out of a slip! When I drink I fall asleep if its more then 10 beers or what ever...

I guess I might have said something to someone, but again maybe I wouldn't have. I would not loose sleep over it. How does it go "stupid is as stupid does" ???
 
#24 ·
The gods seem to watch over the fools and drunks, and this crew seems to have been both.... I think that a quick call to the USCG or local marine police would have not been out of the question... given their apparent ineptness and ill preparation. Chances are very likely that they didn't have working flares, PFDs or VHF radio aboard, and if they did get into trouble would not have had any way to contact help.
 
#25 ·
I don't think that you could have or should have done more than you did. Most of the time - when bad things happen to people on boats, they survive. If something bad happened to those folks, and they lived - well they are probably not going to make the same set of mistakes again.

Some people can learn from others, and some people can only learn from themselves.

I agree with Cam , that if there were children involved, you would have had a moral responsibility to do more, but in the circumstances that you describe, you did the right thing.
 
#26 ·
JT1019 said:
mstern, Not only do I think I know who you are talking about but I think I owned that boat after the idiots almost sank it. Just a guess but did you run into them in the Hew Haven CT area?
No. As he said: This was at his marina, on Lake Erie.

Taking a wild guess at approximately where the OP's marina might be, and that what was meant was Au Gres (pronounced "oh gray") (I'm guessing Au Gres was what was meant by "Auglaize," since there is no "Auglaize" or "Auglaise" in Michigan, that I've ever heard of or been able to find.), looks to be a 250-300 mile trip. Better than 60 miles of it upstream, under motor, against an average 4 kt. current.

If I'm right: That's a helluva trip, first time out. In a new boat.

I wonder how their beer calculations are holding up?

Jim
 
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