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How do you feel about catamarans?

64K views 307 replies 58 participants last post by  TropicCat 
#1 ·
What does everyone think about catamaran sailboats? I have not seen any post about them. Are they harder to sail? Are they safer in off shores sailing?
 
#228 ·
I submit that getting wet or even pooped is not the same as causing damage. It would seem that the JSD allows the wave to hit as gently as possible which is about all one can ask for under the circumstances while the crew remains "dry and relatively comfortable."
 
#235 ·
Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree... You can believe what you want to believe, but I find it hard to imagine that the sort of seas that were sweeping the deck and filling the cockpit of a bluewater thoroughbred like an Amel 53 would not be likely to seriously damage the sort of sliding glass patio doors found on many cruising catamarans today...

The Alpha 42 abandoned back in January was disabled in conditions not even REMOTELY approaching the severity of the survival storm endured by the crew aboard KIMBERLITE, after all...
 
#253 ·
I'm sorry this is tardy. I'm in the process of retiring and moving and my world is in as much disarray as the inverted cats :)

I cannot post copyright material unfortunately but I can provide enough links for you to follow up and read the personal accounts of people inverted in heavy weather. Later I will have my papers unpacked and I have more details.

However hopefully the following accounts will illustrate just how invalid the claims are that sitting on an inverted cat in heavy weather is even tenable as a survival platform.

This is not an exhaustive list. It would pay to talk to the Wolfstan institute in Southhampton UK they are a commercial arm of Southampton University that analyzes such disasters. They have also produced an interesting report ( 1999 ) on the causes of inversion after looking at 67 (Sixty Seven) cruising catamaran inversions of over 33' in length with enough information available to analyze the data. This was to produce a commercial code for sailing cats and the conditions of operation.

Anyway the following accounts are all horrific and my heartfelt condolences go to the poor families who are still devastated by the loss of their loved ones. The dead have no voice, the survivors are often emotionally shattered for a decade or more. And these shattered survivors are people who lost fellow crew not family.

Anyway.....

The most recent 2013 that I'm aware of, was a Belize 43 Catamaran in the Med , they pushed on under power in a gale to try and make port, their props were fouled by a floating line, probably lost fishing gear, consequently they lost their propulsion which they needed to make port, they tried sailing, something broke, the sail shredded and they then drifted out to sea under bare poles. At that point they were not in distress. But they were not heard from again.The Cat was inverted and all 5 adults aboard died either unable to make the hull or washed off it. The intact inverted craft was washed ashore a few days later. The French coroners report probably won't be released until next year.

April 2006 an Outremer 45 Catamaran also in the Med inverted in an estimated 30 knots of wind Off Cape De Creus in Spain. Of the 5 men and 1 woman aboard 4 died and two survived. The cat was broken up by the sea after being washed ashore. The coroners report is available.

I'd expect everyone to be aware of Richard Charrington's ordeal on an inverted cat in 1995 when 4 of the 5 men aboard died. His story was widely circulated after the 2010 Sunday times biographical. A very graphical horrifying account.

The 43 foot Hugo Myers design Queequeg 2 was inverted in heavy seas 180 nautical miles south of Madagascar. Despite activating the EPIRB their location meant rescue was slow to arrive. Two Of the 3 men aboard died.

The Lagoon 38 that inverted in the Atlantic in heavy seas is another example although they triggered an EPIRB and were located one of the 3 men aboard died from exposure before they were rescued. The account is worth reading.

Another example was Catshot the 44 foot cat inverted in heavy seas in the Pacific of the Oregon coast, all 3 men died unable to remain on the upturned cat. The remains of a snapped tether was tied to the upturned hull. That is one of the few cats I'm aware of that inverted while laying to a sea anchor. The skipper was very experienced . Only two months before Catshot's crew were killed another delivery trip gone wrong had killed, Steve Hobley in the 38 foot cat in the Atlantic.

The fatalities were due to the sea conditions that inverted the catamarans making them completely untenable as survival platforms. You will only be likely to survive if you can get inside the hull in a safe dry space while awaiting rescue.

If you sail offshore and get inverted by heavy weather, and there is no ship close by, or you your EPIRB isn't activated or doesn't work, then you can expect a high mortality rate unless the catamaran is specifically designed for inverted survival. Since that adds cost it's only going to occur if it's legislated. Note that an escape hatch is not designing for inverted survival it's to get out without having to dive.

I think we are also entering a phase of very dangerous designs both performance oriented and at the other end of the spectrum massive RV's with high centers of gravity sliding glass door and excessive windage.

It's important to cut through the hype of invulnerability and even equivalence to monohulls and instill some very conservative prudence even fear in cat operators. Otherwise the death rates will continue to climb.

Most importantly cat operators should deploy sea anchors early, shouldn't run with drogues if the forecast is bad and a sea anchor is likely. Several cats have capsized running towing drogues and have also had rudders fouled by drogue lines .
 
#231 ·
Shuttleworth's article was very informative. Prior posts point out difficulties for both types of vessels in extreme weather such as encountered in cyclonal storms. More commonly one can expect to encounter winds/seas of gale and lower grade non cyclonal storms. In a given year the coastal sailor is likely to see thunderstorms and line squalls with the offshore sailor being caught by a fast moving low in spite of best weather routing. One notes multihulls are entirely dependent on form stability. It would appear to be easiest to make a modern tri unsinkable then a cat with water tight cross beams and compartments fore and aft lastly a mono. Concerns not fully addressed but alluded to in John's article are
1. pitchpoling- here prior comments about JSD or other devices are entirely appropriate
2.presence of "false" keels degrading the remarkable ability of multihulls to slide sideways down a wave front but without proper design at risk for inversion. This risk also increases with over loading or if D/L is too high by initial design.
3. windage. when excessive leading to unfavorable motion and risk of structural failure
4. inadequate height of bridge deck and/or bridge deck brought to far forward and/ or aft increasing risk of inversion.
5. hull cross section shape - risks as presented in citation.
6.downflooding as discussed in prior posts
Looking at the multi hulls through the years I've seen there are some where this issues seem to have been thought about and addressed but like with some trends in recent production mono hulls in the majority of production multi hulls not so much. I think this is not a reflection of the superiority of multi v. mono but rather of one particular design versus another. Still one returns to the issue it seems for offshore you need a well thought out multi of >~45' and that's well beyond the reach of the average mom and pop sailor ( self included). Boats not having appropriate offshore features make excellent coastal cruisers but you pay for the extra space.
 
#232 ·
There are and have been many cats below 45' safely sailing the oceans of the world. The first sample that comes to mind would be the Prouts and their 35 and 37' Snowgoose model. Even John Shuttleworth has had many of his below 45' models cross oceans. Here's a story of a bunch of high school kids that built two Shuttleworth 31's and sailed from Europe to the Caribbean then back to Europe.
FOSsailing: Aktuell
I talked a few days ago to another couple who sailed their Shuttleworth 31 from Europe to the Caribe a few months ago.
I'm sure the larger the multi is the more seaworthy and sea kindly they are, probably holds true for monos as well? But it doesn't mean a smaller multi can't be seaworthy.
 
#238 · (Edited)
despite it not being well known, people are sailing catamarans at high latitudes:

Boat is named 'Ice Cat'

"Sunshine Coast yacht designer Robin Chamberlin (52), and Devonport pharmacist Terry Travers (45), who in 1999 became the only people to sail a catamaran inside the Antarctic Circle, have embarked on a south-bound challenge of a different kind. "

new adventure described here:
Sail-World.com : Antarctic adventurers go South again

More adventures of Chamberlin and Travers:
http://www.sail-world.com/USA/index.cfm?SEID=0&Nid=2266&SRCID=0&ntid=0&tickeruid=0&tickerCID=0
 
#248 ·
Once thought to buy a Prout 39. Was impressed how well thought out and well constructed it was. At the time 80-90% of my sailing was single handed and with limited time mostly day sails or short cruises. Found out by my self I would have trouble picking up and rigging to the mooring I had from my town. This would be especially true when the wind was different then current as the boat would be more effected by wind with mono hulls around me would be more effected by current. Also getting in and out of the fuel dock given the limited clearances seemed even more scary then the white knuckle experience it is by yourself on a mono.
Still really liked to ease of setting downwind sails without poles, room. and the lack of draft.
Took a performance cruising tri out ( got it from a friend who sells multi's) with the wife when looking for our "last boat". Put up the rags- immediately was doing double digits and the stays where singing with the tiller vibrating in you hand. I loved it. She hated it. We ended up with a mono.
 
#251 · (Edited)


Every time I see one of these no-transom designs, mono or multi, going down the ICW, it reminds me of that old commercial for the AMC Gremlin, in which the gas station attendant looks at the car and says to the driver, "Where's the rest of your car, toots?" -- they look incomplete.

Racing boats are *not* discussed in this post -- they are a whole different class of critters -- I'm talking about cruising boats.

Good enough for marina-to-marina cruising, maybe, but not open water, where the wind can back 90 degrees and rise to 50 knots in no time, whipping up a cross-sea that has the Ocean standing on her hind legs and blowing the tops off whitecaps. I would not feel comfortable further from shore than I could swim back to in one of these "unfinished" boats.

I see where hybrids are available (on monos), with drop-in boards & station-wagon-like tailgates. If engineered strongly & simply enough, they could be the best of both designs. Don't see anything like that to fix the 'back porch' look of the multis. Yet.
 
#257 · (Edited)
Excellent thread and plenty of food for thought..especially as I myself am seeing big multihulls in huge numbers come down the ICW this spring thus far...many are quite attractive...Perhaps some have watertight hatches built into the hull below waterline that could hold rafts and survival bags that could be accessed by "m.o..b's " in the event of a capsize? In any case...I have thought that cats would be great for alot of types of sailing many folks do where legs can be completed in three- day weather windows or less...beyond that I would be a bit wary of being offshore in one..but their speed in the right conditions is certainly highly enticing ..just some thoughts..hope this thread still has more in it...
 
#260 ·
on the light side:

Multihulls Are For Lovers BY JAMES C. MILLER

Author's Note.- ParentaI guidance for the protection of our youthful readers is advised in regards to this article. Ladies of delicate sensibilities and readers who might be offended by graphic descriptions of sexual activity should read no farther
The sailboat industry has long harbored a dark secret, one known only to those at the innermost core of the industry. Although this secret involves a matter of utmost importance to those who sail, it is never discussed and never written about. It may the only subject which Lynn Pardey hasn't written anything about; the Hiscocks have never mentioned; the Roths are silent on; that Chapman ignores: and even authors back to Slocum have said nothing about. Despite the fact that it is the major cause for putting sailboats up for sale, any salesman mentioning it would he blackballed by the industry for life.
I believe it is time for the industry to 'come out of the closet' on this matter and make the facts known to the general public. Ours has become a sophisticated society capable of taking the sordid and shocking in stride. Furthermore, thanks to advances in technology, a cure is readily available.
Since this information could be emotionally unsettling, for many people, to protect the casual reader who might come upon it without proper warning, we are printing the startling result of our research below. After reading the subject topic, you may choose to exit this article:
SEX ABOARD A SAILBOAT IS ABSOLUTELY LOUSY!
I know that this strikes at the foundation of all that we have been led to believe about sailing, but I can vouch for its veracity. While researching this subject, I personally have acted as a guinea pig over a period of many years, at great risk, expense, and discomfort. I have interviewed hundreds of people who have bravely attempted to have sex on a monohull, all in the interest of advancing the frontiers of scientific knowledge. Many of these people have suffered serious injuries while conducting this research. Their sacrifices should not go unrecorded. They are the true heroes of this story.
Based on indisputable evidence, which is available to any qualified fellow scientist in this field, I have formulated the First Principle of Monohulls:
God Did Not Intend Man to Procreate while on an Angle.
A perfect example of this principle is the experience of a couple I'll call Dionne and Charles. While on a cruise with another couple, they felt the need to express their affection for one another in a physical way. Going below, Dionne got into their bunk, only to find herself wedged tightly between the bulkhead and the bunk because the boat was heeled 45 degrees on port tack. Despite the discomfort, the couple proceeded with their amorous activities.
Unfortunately, just at what might he described as, a 'climactic moment,’ the helmsman brought the boat about onto the starboard tack, throwing the couple to the cabin sole and causing serious physical and emotional harm. Later marital problems have been traced to this single incident The couple is rumored to be considering a divorce.
Even while level, the monohull is designed to deprive the romantically inclined of any enjoyment. The perfect example of this fact is the diabolical "V" berth, a fixture in virtually every monohull constructed since the dawn of time.
The "V" berth allows two people to have their heads together while their feet are 4' apart; or their feet together while their heads, are separated. No intermediate points can get close.
In all of our research, only one person reported satisfaction with the "V" berth. This was a fellow from Southern California who I willcall Lonny. He has a foot fetish and slept with his head forward; while his wife, who I will call Cherie, slept with her head aft. Although Lonny was happy, Cherie was lonely. Eventually they divorced. We have no record of what happened to either after that.
Research shows that many couples like to keep their bedroom activities to themselves. Because of the space limitations and layout of monohulls, this is virtually an impossibility. Sounds made in one stateroom are readily audible throughout the boat. On a monohull, you surrender your privacy the minute you come aboard.
If anyone manages to consummate a sexual act, our research reveals that one or more of those involved frequently wish to visit the head shortly thereafter. And where is the head on a monohull? Often in or beside someone else's stateroom. In extreme cases, it may actually be under someone else's bunk.
The advertising industry has been one of the major causes of misinformation about monohulls. For years, sailing a monohull has been depicted in print and on television as a very romantic activity. For example, a television ad for personal banking services showed a mature man at the helm of a monohull under sail, yachting cap on his head, blazer on his back, drink in his hand. Just beyond him lounged a young lady in 2 -piece bathing suit who could have qualified as Miss America. The boat glided smoothly through the sea, heeling not a single degree.
Our research revealed what actually happened after the cameras stopped rolling: The wind came up a few knots, the boat heeled, the girl went below and got sick, clogging up the head in the process. The owner put the boat on autopilot and went down to work on the head. With no one on deck, the boat ran aground. To get free, Mr. Mature and Miss America had to wait 10 hours for the next high tide. Upon returning to his slip at 2 a.m., the owner found his worried wife awaiting him. Her reaction to finding the young girl aboard was predictable. She filed for divorce, and the boat had to be sold to pay the legal fees.
So much for truth in advertising,
Thanks to advances in modern technology, there's a ready solution to the sex-while-sailing problem: The Cruising Multihull! Instead of heeling, it moves rhythmically, like a Magic Fingers bed vibrator. There is enough room for privacy and every stateroom can have a private head, if desired. It truly puts romance into sailing.
I believe the multihull industry has a moral obligation to bring these benefits to the attention of our sailing brothers and sisters. Perhaps buttons worn at boat shows would be an inexpensive and effective way to begin this crusade. Later, other media, such as magazines and television, can become involved. Our first slogan might be:
MULTIHULL SAILORS DO IT ON THE LEVEL.
Reprinted from Multihull Magazine; Jan/Feb 1993; with minor editing
 
#261 · (Edited)
"MULTIHULL SAILORS DO IT ON THE LEVEL."

If a large bed and a level ride is required, the problem could be one of several;

1. Operator error
2. Lack of experience
3. No imagination
4. Fear of a "rough ride"
5. Laziness

In defense of monohulls, here are a few pro's my boat had for that particular activity;

1. Plenty of handholds
2. V-berth ensures closeness for 2 people on either side. One side for each tack.
3. At anchor, with filler installed, v-berth has plenty of room for any position. The one on top gets to stick their head through the hatch.
4. Cushions on settee's can be repositioned for maximum fun or will cover the sole to eliminate risk of accidental "roll over".
5. Helmsman can see all the way to the V-berth for the "changing into my bikini" action.
6. A hammock strung between the mast and the forestay in a moonlit remote cove makes for all kinds of romance.

In conclusion, I refute the findings of the author of that article.:p
 
#264 ·
Biggest problem with multis for me is size and price. I couldn't buy a cat that would be the equal of what we now have (42' mono sloop) without spending a few hundred thousand dollars more than the current Womboat is worth.

Yes we end up with all that space but I doubt we actually need or want it.

Probably my favourite cats are the Chris White designs. There is an Atlantic 48 moored near us and I confess to the odd drool every time we pass her. Gorgeous beast.

 
#265 ·
Main thing is to find one berth where there is a hatch directly over and the distance from the berth to the overhead is just right. Open the hatch lady sits on the deck man stands on the berth. You soon forget there is sea running.:D in fact it helps.:D:D
 
#276 ·
we had a fast aussie tri come into the country...a few months ago...they only stayed a couple of days and scooted off into the sunset!

it was around 40-45 ft...very modern...they were probably delivering it to the carribean or something

Im guessing their crusing speed was in the mid to high teens vs. what 5-6kts most midsize monohulls these days?

makes you think huh?

ps. Id take a tri over a cruising cat any day of the week I love that tris have that mono feel in the middle and basically you are just playing with amas...

peace
 
#286 ·
jzk:
I think I know the boat in Chicago. If she is the same, (she was at the same yard we had our boat in at the time) I heard it that she was bought out of a boat show, sent to Pensacola, had Randy Smyth do some rigging changes (does she have a carbon sprit with textile rigging and nets forward?), had the boat painted blue, and then she was sent up via the river waterways to Chicago.

It is my opinion that your observations are spot on. The new trends are for very open cockpits, massive flat windows, high booms, and enclosed panels under which important running rigging is run, and forward cockpits. All of which equal to me a very unseaworthy combination. Outremer seem to be the exception to that, at least in the new boats we saw at Miami. That said, a lot of these 'things' get across on their own bottoms so they can cross at least once.

Me, I bought an older boat, and even with her warts, I'm glad I did.
 
#288 ·
That is the one. She is on A dock in DuSable harbor. She sure is a sweet looking boat.

I am sure that a catamaran like that appeals to powerboat people as well, as it is very much like a powerboat with sails. A crossover if you will.

I wonder how they will like having it in Chicago. The thing about Chicago is that it is pretty spartan in the way of "cruising grounds." So, I can see how it would have little appeal to a catamaran owner. (The northern half of Lake Michigan is a whole different world with thousands of cruising destinations).

There really are no anchorages except the playpen, and there is no where to go with your dinghy.

People that sail in Chicago like to actually "sail." They go out sailing. They don't sail to any location, just out sailing.

Then there is a big powerboat crowd in Chicago. For them, boating consists of driving your boat to the "playpen," anchoring, and partying all day with a relaxation station floating behind the boat. Lots of powerboats there with club music playing all day and more people than you would ever want to have on your boat.

Then there is the "Chicago Scene" boat party which is the yearly event for that powerboat group. There is a guy that used to be on our dock with a Carver that now has an Azimut 55 on A dock (same dock as the Leopard 48). We tied up our powerboat in his same group of about 25 boats rafted together for that party. We made it over to his boat, and there were more drunk people on his boat shoulder to shoulder than I could believe. You could see him stressing the whole time going around picking up cups and empty beer cans the whole time trying to keep the crowd out of his cabins.
 
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