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safe cooking

26K views 300 replies 39 participants last post by  hellosailor 
#1 ·
i have read a lot of threads about stoves on boats. of course, the usual debate is alcohol or propane.

recently, last month actually, a powerboat at the marina my boat is berthed at caught fire and burned up completely. it was a live aboard. the guy was hurt but he lived. he was lucky. he bought another power boat off of their lean dock and moved into it. the cause? his propane stove.

that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!

but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?

also, how real is the risk with alcohol?

as i get my boat ready to sail, this will be a choice i am going to have to face. it doesn't have a stove but i will want one for cruising. eating out at every port you stp at is going to be way too costly and you can't always be sure you will be stopping at a port for the night. thanks.
 
#2 ·
...

that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat! ...
A wise choice, IMHO.

...but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?

also, how real is the risk with alcohol?

...
The old, pressurized, alcohol stoves were a hazard, mainly because it's difficult to see an alcohol flame unless the lighting is pretty dim. A leak, or fully open unlit burner, could get quite a fire going before anyone realized what was happening. However, modern non-pressurized alcohol stoves (such as those from Origo and Cookmate) are about as safe as a cooker can get. The fuel is much safer than propane, it's almost impossible for the canisters to leak, and there are no hoses, valves, etc., to leak. About the only way I've ever heard of anyone having an uncontrolled fire with an unpressurized stove is if they try to refill the canister while there is still a flame going (which just proves that nothing is completely idiot-proof).

Oh, and while non-pressurized alcohol stove may seem pricy compared to their propane counterparts, that difference vanishes (or is reversed) when you consider the cost of the hoses/tubing, valves, solenoid, vapor sniffer, tank(s), etc., none of which are necessary the a non-pressurized stove.
 
#17 ·
A wise choice, IMHO.

The old, pressurized, alcohol stoves were a hazard, mainly because it's difficult to see an alcohol flame unless the lighting is pretty dim. A leak, or fully open unlit burner, could get quite a fire going before anyone realized what was happening. However, modern non-pressurized alcohol stoves (such as those from Origo and Cookmate) are about as safe as a cooker can get. The fuel is much safer than propane, it's almost impossible for the canisters to leak, and there are no hoses, valves, etc., to leak. About the only way I've ever heard of anyone having an uncontrolled fire with an unpressurized stove is if they try to refill the canister while there is still a flame going (which just proves that nothing is completely idiot-proof).

Oh, and while non-pressurized alcohol stove may seem pricy compared to their propane counterparts, that difference vanishes (or is reversed) when you consider the cost of the hoses/tubing, valves, solenoid, vapor sniffer, tank(s), etc., none of which are necessary the a non-pressurized stove.
thanks. i had forgotten about the non-pressurized types, in my post. that's an option i will have to look into farther.
 
#3 ·
i have read a lot of threads about stoves on boats. of course, the usual debate is alcohol or propane.

recently, last month actually, a powerboat at the marina my boat is berthed at caught fire and burned up completely. it was a live aboard. the guy was hurt but he lived. he was lucky. he bought another power boat off of their lean dock and moved into it. the cause? his propane stove.

that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!

but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?

also, how real is the risk with alcohol?

as i get my boat ready to sail, this will be a choice i am going to have to face. it doesn't have a stove but i will want one for cruising. eating out at every port you stp at is going to be way too costly and you can't always be sure you will be stopping at a port for the night. thanks.
One word:

kerosene!
 
#14 ·
Personally, I wouldn't mind a kero stove. However, my wife is particularly sensitive to such fumes. Even a "perfectly burning" kero stove drives her nuts when we've used them while camping in the Great Outdoors. In a boat cabin I would probably have a mutiny on my hands.
 
#5 ·
Our first family boat had an alcohol stove and when mum lit it the alcohol spilled from the saucer thingy and caused a fure. Dad and I leapt to the rescue and used both dry powder extinguises.... But that didnt put the fire out.
Mum the put a towel over it and smmothered the lot. So much for heroic men :(

So, no alcohol stoves on my boat.
 
#6 ·
My Boat came with CNG. I like it so I've never converted to propane. I know it's not readily available, but I have had no difficulty filling up here in the Northeast U.S. Perhaps with the resurgence of Natural Gas, CNG may become more readily available in the future. Who knows.
 
#12 ·
CNG (compressed natural gas) is another good option because it is lighter than air and can't accumulate in the bilge. However, it can be difficult to find outside of the US.
 
#7 ·
i have read a lot of threads about stoves on boats. of course, the usual debate is alcohol or propane.

<snip>

that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!
There are only so many options.

People all over the world, ashore and afloat, cook on propane or butane. There are maintenance requirements as for so many other systems but they aren't onerous. Propane all in all is pretty safe.

Alcohol has two big issues - the flame is very difficult to see and the energy content is low. The latter means extended cooking times.

Kerosene has odor issues if combustion isn't well managed and the appliance choices are limited. For most you'll have heat issues - fine in northern latitudes, not so great in the tropics.

Electrical heat - resistance or inductive has a growing following but you are completely dependent on your generator running for every meal.
 
#8 ·
The option that I chose, and that nobody here has mentioned so far, is an electric galley. I have a Ceran 4 burner stove and oven aboard which is quite energy efficient. Baking bread or other things in the oven takes a lot of power to warm up, but once at temperature the electrical use is miserly indeed.

An electric galley requires a hefty inverter and a good sized battery bank if one doesn't want to fire up a generator in order to bake or cook, but I'm glad I went that way and have no propane in the cabin (I kept the propane tanks and they are hooked up to the BBQ outside and all of the interior tubing is in place but not connected.

Electric Galley on Zanshin
 
#35 ·
i was wondering if electric was an option. at home, i prefer electric stoves. natural gas can kill you.

i won't be needing an oven, just a stove top. heck, i never could get bread to rise when i have tried baking it, anyway.:)

i wonder how bad a draw electric stove tops are....
 
#9 · (Edited)
The reality of this discussion is the numbers. There are literally thousands of propane stoves out there for every alcohol stove. There are a very few explosions when you compare the numbers like that. Just like gas is dangerous, and I don't see all you with gas engines swearing never to have one on your boat, propane is dangerous, but with a properly set up system and an operator who is halfway cautious, there is no more danger with a propane system than with any other.
As someone who has a boat with electric cooking (I guess you'd call that the ultimate safe stove?), I'd switch in a heartbeat and never regret it.
If you are an alcoholic, have Alzheimer's or someone who just can't operate and maintain something as simple as a stove, then by all means, find an alternative, but blaming propane for the errors of it's operators is the same as blaming any tool for it's operator's actions. It is much more likely you will be injured or killed DRIVING down to your boat in your car, than by your propane stove.
 
#13 ·
^^^^amen to that(captas paragraph)

this is nonsense never use a car then if your afraid of propane or gas, or an outboard or go inside buildings with heaters

or under your house whatever

it cant get any more simple

there is a valve on the tank connector(prefferably outside in open air or at least a box with a vent down below, I preffer completely exposed) and a soleinoid or second valve before the stove oven...

when using the stoves you always work your way back so with flame on you turn the tank off first...let the gas burn from the tubing completelt then shutoff second valve then stove valve

repeat process to turn on in reverse...

a good way to check for leaks is simply turn on stove first and light it...if it ignites and all your valves are "closed" you know yo have a problem...

I just did this in my house not too long ago...shutting of the valve at the tank did nothing to stop the flame going out so I just replaced the valve

done

all these explosions and stuff are simply from idiots doing stuff wrong or not giving a crap...

fancy expensive installations but the boat is never used so you have something that fails you never know about it and bam...stuff like that

but like others having been around and travelled a lot with propane this was the least of our worries when cruising...

If I were a solo sailor on a very small boat say under 25 feet you cant beat JAMES BALDWINS gimballed kerosene cooker...

it combines the benefits of kerosene, pressure so you have less soot and gimballed single burner for simplicity...

ps alcohol is not a worldwide fuel and is much scarcer and non existant in many countries...using other alcohols is cost prohibitive

kerosene is very popular and yes you can use diesel instead and add a touch of something I forget to improve flame and decrease soot

and lastly PROPANE can be found ANYWHERE
 
#16 ·
^^^^amen to that(captas paragraph)

this is nonsense never use a car then if your afraid of propane or gas, or an outboard or go inside buildings with heaters
...
A car or house are NOT the same as a boat. If you haven't noticed, a boat has a bilge. That bilge collects fumes. You can vent the bilge with a fan, but relying on electrical gizmos that live in a salty, damp environment, to prevent an explosion is problematic at best. Why not just avoid the dangerous fumes all together?
 
#15 ·
On my Allegra 24 I had no sniffer and no cylinoid. I plumbed it myself so I knew it was good. I had one continues fuel line from stern mounted tank to oven. When I wanted to cook I turned it on half turn open. When I was done cooking I shut it off and let fuel burn out of line. These are very low pressure systems and 100% infallible when done correctly.
 
#19 ·
On my Allegra 24 I had no sniffer and no cylinoid. I plumbed it myself so I knew it was good. I had one continues fuel line from stern mounted tank to oven. When I wanted to cook I turned it on half turn open. When I was done cooking I shut it off and let fuel burn out of line. These are very low pressure systems and 100% infallible when done correctly.
Aye, there's the rub --- "when done correctly."

It only takes forgetting, or being distracted, or a leak in the line filling you bilge while you are cooking, ONCE to make for a really bad day.
 
#28 ·
First off lets look at safety. You have a better chance of dying from brushing your teeth "fluoride" or dying in your car "read statistics" than you do from being blown up from a properly maintained system. If you are not comfortable with any fuel definitely don't use it. Life is too short to live it having doubts about the safety of your boat. I'm not a fan of anything electric on a boat but thats just me. Kill those batteries and you don't get your mooring coffee, half way to Hawaii and this could cause a mutiny. Once you leave the states you will not find alcohol as Hess commented or CNG, you will however find propane in the most BFE places on the planet and its cheap. I housed my entire line in PVC tubing to protect it from me being an idiot at the throwing my knive collection... at it. I plumbed it fasted to the underside of my deck so it was as safe and out of the way as possible. If the tank valve fails, It can happen. You still have the stove valve. Blow through a straw and you will create 100 times more pressure that is coming through the regulator, very low pressure system. It stinks to holy heaven, I can't imagine how anyone could miss a leak. One last note just because you get a leak doesn't mean your boat will blow up. You have to be an extra special type of moron to blow your boat up with propane. :)
 
#54 ·
Blow through a straw and you will create 100 times more pressure that is coming through the regulator, very low pressure system. It stinks to holy heaven, I can't imagine how anyone could miss a leak. One last note just because you get a leak doesn't mean your boat will blow up. You have to be an extra special type of moron to blow your boat up with propane. :)
Propane low pressure regulators are factory set at 3 PSI. if you can blow 100 times more PSI than that, id have to say you have been practicing.:)

Also someone mentioned that he/she only opens the valve 1/2 turn. Propane valves are double sealing valves and as such need to be all the way open or all the way closed or they can leak past the stem packing. How many super smart propane users knew that. :)
 
#30 ·
I like the simplicity of my non- pressurized alcohol stove. Yeah, lower energy potential than Porpane, but unless you do all of your cooking on high flame, the actual difference is pretty negligible on a small burner, small footprint marine stove. An over or a large footprint burner would be a different story.

another advantage of a small alcohol stove is the "hoseless" portability. want to do a fondue or grill night with friends in the cockpit? Bring the alcohol stove outside, put it on the cockpit table, and you are good to go.

Another "safe" alternative is small butane ranges. 2-Burner Butane Countertop Range / Portable Stove with Brass Burners

Not as durable as a stainless steel alcohol range, but at the price, you could buy one a year for 10 years before the cost difference is eaten up.
 
#33 ·
BJ I'm currently using this system as I rebuild my galley and they are great but also VERY dangerous and have a history of blowing to high hell. We have a ten minute max before we enter the danger zone. That being said when we took a knock down this summer "captains fault" we taco'd the stove, our second lost stove to date "captain needs to install reef lines" and it was about 24 bucks to replace. Finding fuel can be a challenge. I would guess I have used these about 1500 meals to date and love it minus fear of early entrance to heaven
 
#45 ·
see......that's what worries me about propane. it does happen. and it happened in my marina. that's kind of close to home. too close to totally ignore.
 
#47 ·
just to add to the fire that thread has foul play as one of the causes...

whatever the case just do your research and you will be rewarded wth tons of info

if I ever solo sail again on a small boat I repeat that james baldwins kerosene gimballed cooker is hard to beat

:)
 
#52 ·
just to add to the fire that thread has foul play as one of the causes...

whatever the case just do your research and you will be rewarded wth tons of info

if I ever solo sail again on a small boat I repeat that james baldwins kerosene gimballed cooker is hard to beat

:)
that's the reason for the thread. i want to learn before i decide. i will have to look into that type of cooker. i am used to handling kero.
 
#42 ·
just to add to the discussion I used an origo twin pop down burner alcohol stove that came with my international folkboat really cool stove that stowed as a unit like a locker than simply popped down for use...

safe easy to use the only drawback was expense buying fuel even in california...

the flame was almost impossible to see its was low btys so boiling water for coco or a ramen was not exactly instant and it could be on and you wouldnt know about it unless you put your hand over it...

but Im a cook so flames dont scare me that bad as Im used to flare ups and whatnot...

so its understable to have a natural bad reaction to gas stoves and the like but it can be made simply on any fuel really

just use some common sense and prudency
 
#44 ·
Can propane explode? Sure. Is it too risky? Do its benefits outweigh its risks? Well, that's an entirely subjective calculation that everyone has to answer for himself.

I will note that lots of houses (at least in New England) are HEATED by propane. Many homes across the country have propane gas fireplaces. Of course, many more homes are heated with natural gas (and have gas stoves and fireplaces.) Occasionally, some of those explode. Of course, lots of houses burn down because of electrical fires. Most things are not completely safe, but risks can be minimized and managed.

I have propane on my boat and and fine with it. But when I bought her, I replaced all the propane lines and valves with new. I put in a new stove with a thermocouple (the old one did not have that safety feature.) I have a solenoid and a sniffer. And I'm annal about turning the gas off at the tank every time I'm not using it and letting the gas burn out of the lines before I shut the appliance off.

Bottom line is that I think propane is very safe if used with care. I think that goes for most things. Turn off the brain and things can go south in a hurry for a whole basket of reasons...
 
#49 ·
I had these same fears of cooking with propane, alcohol, butane, etc...

My solution... I removed the original Origo stove which was in great condition but felt it better to use something more safe... what did I do... installed an induction stove into the galley opening and never looked back. I have a 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter that runs the unit and since it's very efficient there is no need to worry about battery usage... haven't had a problem all the time I was using the stove on the boat and my wife that would have been non-skilled on the alcohol stove doesn't have a worry now... it is the first thing my next boat will have... all induction cooking/baking. :)

I do have a camp stove w/butane in the boat stored away for when we drop anchor on some shore and cook our foods with that.

I kept the Origo stove to replace back on the boat if when selling the buyer wants the alcohol stove... I put it in storage.

I will say it again... I have no worries ever again with the sort of worries others have with these types of flammable fuels. ;)
 
#53 ·
induction cooker are great...they are very popular in europe and especially france and spain and beleive it or not they are highly regarded by chefs in modern cooking...

MODERN COOKING IS LESS FLAME USE BTW...jajaja

I would live and induction cooker on a boat if I had good space to keep it working with panels, wind power etc...and a nice inverter like you have

they are very cool I think but budget wise not for me yet
 
#55 · (Edited)
reading the link provided by multihullgirl doesn't make me feel all that good about propane or butane. i definately will be keeping them on the back burner ( sorry. i couldn't help it. it was such an obvious pun. it would have been negligent not to have gone there ) as i check out non-pressurized alcohol, CNG, electric, and induction.


strike that. induction and electric are out because of battery needs. just non-pressurized alcohol and CNG to choose from....oh, and kero.
 
#58 ·
The only problem with electric stoves, whether conventional electric or induction, is that you need a pretty hefty power source (usually a gen-set or shore power). I doubt a Cal 27-1 is going to have a gen-set, so you would be limited to cooking in places where you can get shore power. You can get a combo electric-alcohol (non-pressurized) stove from Origo, but they're pretty pricey. I used to keep a little electric hotplate on my boat so that I wouldn't need to burn alcohol at the dock, but I decided that it was just easier to used the alcohol stove even at the dock.
 
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#68 · (Edited)
(It was more her boat than his, actually. Anyway.)

No, it did not explode.

And your point is? I don't even know what stove they had on the boat (they have since moved). Let us assume it was indeed gas.

Then you have clearly shown that there is ONE boat with an LPG system that did NOT immediately blow up. Even though it was certainly possible, just as the boat that exploded this week because of the rat bite.

I would feel so much better now if I had a gas system.
 
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