|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|07-24-2007 08:18 AM|
|sailingdog||Estimated load caused by a body falling 6' is much higher than what those lifelines are rated at. That's why the breaking strength of jacklines is generally recommended to be at least 6000 lbs.—not that anyone weighs 6000 pounds...but that much force can be generated in a cross the boat fall.|
|07-23-2007 06:06 PM|
Bear in mind that working load does not consider the increased load of a 200# person falling from 6' high. The loads generated by such a falling object are much higher than "working load" of just the weight of a person. Of course an average pig weighs more than 200#s but is much shorter than an average human so it balances out.
|07-23-2007 03:23 PM|
Everything on our boat runs to the cockpit; even with that I would not consider removing the lifelines.
Two years ago we were caught in a squall with 40 knot winds gusting to almost 60 knots. As the storm came in and we prepared the boat to ride it out our port jib sheet became securely caught at the base of the port shrouds. Now we were on a starboard tack, heading towards shore unable to tack or reef, someone had to go and either release or cut the line. We headed into the wind, sails luffed, and my lovely mate, connected to a jackline & wearing a PFD went fwd to release the line in our slacked jib. At the moment she releases the line, a gust shifted direction and she hadn't noticed she was straddling the line. Jib fills and she gets pinned against the lifeline and the jib sheet. She was bruised, but still in the boat. I steered into the winds new direction and she came back aft, still dry.
I am not saying we reacted perfectly, but found out the hard way that they are beneficial. They also are not really below your center of gravity, trust me she wasn't walking there and back upright and this all happened before the storm really blew. To ensure they do not impede a rescue I would make sure they weren't one solid strand along the side but have at least 2 or 3 clips between posts along the length. Having a section fwd, one mid, and one aft that you can easily open would work well.
Yes they can be a nuisance at the dock or sailing in 10-15 knot winds; but that's probably not when you'll need them either. Trust me, we didn't go out looking to find out if our foulies would really keep us dry that day.
|07-22-2007 10:32 PM|
|sailingdog||btw, Giu usually has trouble keeping track of his camera... much less having it around to take such a photo.|
|07-22-2007 09:51 PM|
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
|07-22-2007 09:33 PM|
You didn't take that photo... (I had to say it to keep Faster happy.)
I do like the stanchionless example youve picked...
|07-22-2007 06:55 PM|
No offense taken Bob, I was merely stating a quick fix. as lifelines are only a safety and precautionary device anyway and not a life saving device. Lowes advertises a "184 lb working load", west marine advertises "average breaking strength" for their 3/32=1/8 covered line. there has to be a disclaimer due to liability reasons on lowes part. a person slipping on deck does not regularly generate 184lbs of force. I can however attest that it will hold the wife, kid and I (384 lbs) in our back yard hammock suspended 24" from the ground. The only thing I recommend for a life saving device is a properly worn PFD, and then... i still question them.
edit: Valiente, thats totally sweet!
|07-22-2007 05:41 PM|
NoDoubt, I suspect Bob Gainer was hanging onto boats in gales when you were still in your father's ballsack. I have found his comments consistently fair, redolent of real-life sailing experience, and humble enough to state his mistakes and screw-ups, whereby he lived to tell the tale. I also find his tone in writing the opposite of "berating": he was merely stating the obvious (to me): something meant to keep a dog in a yard is probably insufficient to keep a man on a knocked-down deck. Not in my world, anyway.
There is no one right answer here, but for inland lakes, I like the jackline and/or multiple padeye idea, or simply a slightly beefed-up toerail or SS pipe bulwark, like Giu illustrates. If he were someplace likely to produce waves that would float him right off the deck (and this has happened to me on Lake Ontario on the bow), you want to wash up against something that will let the water off and keep you on. Height doesn't matter when you are on your ass or on all fours with an unhanked jib in your hand.
Now, as for lifelines, I believe I have the solution: Lifepipes! I never trip on them, they are hip-height, not knee-height, and people assume I'm some sort of ship twice as distant as I appear to be.
|07-22-2007 05:31 PM|
Originally Posted by NoDoubt View Post
I donít think I make a habit of picking on new members but maybe itís the new members or the less experienced members that say the things that are most likely to be misguided or wrong. In this case he has been a member since 2001 and has made many posts that I didnít have anything to say about and some that I have even enjoyed reading. You on the other hand are the new member but I havenít had anything to say about your posts either until you insulted me.
I didnít insult him and I didnít intend to insult him but its an important point and I intended to word my response in a way that would get his attention and get him to think about what heís doing and recommending others do. If someone without much experience follows his advice and falls overboard while sailing the consequences can be very serious and in fact you can die this way.
Did I misstate a fact or offer an opinion as a fact? I donít think so but I am open to corrections if I have made an error. And of course you or anyone else is entitled to your own opinion and I am entitled to offer my opinion in response but if you misstate a fact I feel very comfortable correcting you or anyone else without regard to how long they have been a member. And as much as I appreciate you permission to offer an opinion I donít need or ask for your permission. I have earned my right to an opinion and I donít much care what someone like you thinks about it.
All the best,
|07-22-2007 04:53 PM|
|Freesail99||NoDoubt, Your way out of line. All he did was state a fact. Many lifelines are 3/16 and have 3 times the working load.|
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