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Chartplotter at the nav station

4K views 25 replies 11 participants last post by  Shockwave 
#1 ·
My wife and I recently looked at a boat with a Raymarine c-70 at the nav station. Can a repeater located at the helm?
 
#2 ·
There are many options out there for dual displays (not sure exactly which models off-hand, I'm still fairly new to it all myself), but there are plenty that offer remote displays, or syncing with iPhones/iPads etc. Easy way is to pull up an owners manual online for the units you're considering, and see if they list it as an option.
 
#5 ·
I use a laptop at the nav station, rather than a pedestal mount, since I don't steer by the chartplotter. If I'm going to be looking at any instrumentation, it's the depth sounder.
 
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#6 ·
Thank you, charlzo. I checked the C-70 manual which referred me to the installation instructions. The installation instructions show that the C-70 supports external wind, knot log, and depth displays but no supplemental chartplotter display.

I'm disappointed. I frequently refer to the data from the chartplotter when at the helm. Going below to get this information strikes me as inconvenient and when I'm the sole person on watch dangerous.

These instruments are quite weather resistant. Why would they be mounted below? Theft protection?
 
#7 ·
Hey,

Once you start looking into electronics, even for units 2-3 years old, things can quickly spiral out of control.

My own view is that chart plotters were mounted down below because that's where the 'navigator' worked and he would need it there. I don't believe that's how it works anymore and I certainly want the plotter at the helm where I can use it while actually sailing.

You mentioned 'repeater,' what do you mean by that? Typically, a repeater will display information like boat speed, depth, wind information, and maybe lat / lon and even waypoint information (bearing, distance, time, etc.). If that's what you want you should be able to add a repeater, like the i70, which could display lots and lots of information. The downside of that is cost - the i70 is around $500 and then you would need the appropriate networking cables.

If you want to see the chartplotter display, then you really need another or new plotter.

Personally, I would just move the C70 up to the helm and be done with it. If you want information down below then use an old, cheap laptop, or a tablet with GPS or buy a cheap plotter.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#9 ·
I certainly want the plotter at the helm where I can use it while actually sailing.
Which is a discussion in and of itself. I think the stack of electronics on the pedestal so common today is ill-advised. Instruments should be forward, preferably over the companionway where they can be seen from anywhere in the cockpit. A chartplotter should be under the dodger preferably to port.
 
#8 ·
Yes move the plotter up to the helm. Down below I would use an iPad or old laptop with Open CPN a free chart software that is well supported and will integrate with future electronics. It will even work on an old netbook, does not require much.
 
#11 ·
I agree that OpenCPN is great, and very flexible to integrate with electronics if you're handy with computer interfacing. I use it as my primary chartplotter at the helm, but I'm a fair weather daysailer, so everything stays dry.

However, I do want to point out that OpenCPN does not run on an iPad. It needs Windows, Linux, or Mac. But no iOS version. This year I'm running it on a Windows 8 tablet (Miix2 8" on a RAM mount at the helm) in addition to having it on my home and work PCs and my backup netbook at the boat). I plot my routes on the large screen at home, and copy the .gpx files to the tablet.
 
#13 ·
For myself, the primary purpose of a chart plotter is as a recording device. Unless I'm well offshore, there's not really anything the chart plotter can tell me that my eyes can't. It can confirm what I see, but it's certainly not a substitute for what I see. So for me, having it at the helm is merely a distraction. In fact, the only instrument I have at the helm is the compass.
 
#15 ·
Don't you have possible anchorages in mind before you start out? That's what I do while eating breakfast. Primary, alternate and along the way.
 
#16 ·
I think he was referring to how the chartplotter helps him avoid running aground.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I think this thread highlights how greatly our use of chartplotters differs with our sailing range and objectives. An ocean sailor says, "Why would anyone need a chartplotter at the helm?" because there's almost nothing to bump into out there and he only needs to check it infrequently. Yet a shallow water sailor (like on the Chesapeake) needs it at the helm to avoid underwater obstacles.

I sail on a river with potential for lots of commercial traffic. I like having my "chartplotter" at the helm to show me where/when the big freighters are coming from, or whether they're just anchored on the horizon. I get frequent AIS alarms and need to tap the "acknowledge" button to turn the alarm off. If I had to leave the helm to walk up to the companionway every time an alarm went off, it would create a hazardous condition. I need to have it at the helm.

Since I tack frequently (otherwise I'd run into the sides of the river), I use my chartplotter to give crew a "2 minute warning" of upcoming tacks. My software projects a vector in front of my boat indicating where I'll be in 2 minutes, so as soon as that vector hits skinny water, I give the warning to my crew. This allows me to use as much as possible of the river's limited width.

FYI, I don't have a real "chartplotter." I use a Windows 8 tablet running OpenCPN to display GPS and AIS, and a separate handheld GPS as backup and for recording my tracks. It has a lot of really nice features, including the configurable alarms and prediction vectors.
 
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#21 ·
I think this thread highlights how greatly our use of chartplotters differs with our sailing range and objectives. An ocean sailor says, "Why would anyone need a chartplotter at the helm?" because there's almost nothing to bump into out there and he only needs to check it infrequently. Yes a shallow water sailor (like on the Chesapeake) needs it at the helm to avoid underwater obstacles.
I don't agree at all.

Perhaps I'm just easily distracted. *grin* ** -- oh look something shiny -- }

A chartplotter or paper chart (both are based on the same survey data after all, and resolution and accuracy can be no better than the survey) makes us aware of what we can anticipate. Neither is any substitute for a depth sounder, which should be visible from behind the wheel and from the principal watchstander spot in the cockpit. Heck, I have a repeater in the aft cabin next to my head which is useful at anchor, cruising the Chesapeake with Janet while I nap (I love Janet) in the afternoon, and offshore.

The chartplotter should NOT be at the helm for a couple of reasons: in most installations it blocks the helmsperson's view forward; and current generations (including mine, and I'm old) get distracted by the perceived reliability of the machine and fiddle with it too much.

Placing the chartplotter under the dodger (preferably to port) puts it in the spot most accessible to a watchstander (formal or not) while the autopilot is steering. It is more visible to other crew. It is protected from weather by the dodger. Unless your vision is even more awkward than mine you can see it from the wheel (I use 6 nm range for general sailing, 3 nm (usually) for inlets, and 1-1/2 nm (usually) for close quarters); it is best to keep your head outside the boat and pay attention to marks and landmarks and not the 'video game' that is the chartplotter.

I'm definitely an offshore guy. No question. We spend a huge amount of time gunkholing in the Chesapeake and I have never regretted putting our chartplotter under the dodger. I do plenty of deliveries and have a lot of personal opportunities to compare navigation instrument positioning. The "stack" (as Jon Eisberg calls it) at the helm is about the worst I can think of whether inshore, coastal, or offshore.

I know some boats don't have dodgers (which gobsmacks me). In that case, the swing out mounts in the companionway are probably the best solution.

My, hopefully educated and somewhat experienced, opinion.
 
#18 · (Edited)
As a coastal cruiser I prefer the chart plotter at the helm (a fixed mount with radar in my case, a Garmin 3006). Down below if I need to check position / course I'll use either a handheld Garmin Oregon 400c or GPSMap 478 kept as backups or the ipad or iphone with Garmin apps. I prefer the redundancy of separate systems rather linked units where one might be dependent on the other.
 
#19 ·
I think he was referring to how the chartplotter helps him avoid running aground.
I understand that. For myself, I find the depth sounder far more of a reliable instrument than a chart which may or may not be accurate. That's why I plan ahead.
 
#20 ·
For what it's worth, we have a large Garmin chart plotter at our navigation station below (where we always have paper charts laid out for the area we're traveling for comparison), and a second 3205 Garmin at the helm station that can be dismounted when not needed. Both units are wired to allow them to feed data to our computer at the navigation station if/when needed. The helm station display is very useful and especially so for my (much) better half who sometimes has difficulty steering to a compass course but has no difficulty "follow(ing) the arrow" or "stay(ing) on the highway", both display options on the 3205. The 3205 displays AIS data which allows one to "see" approaching traffic and can be linked to one's radar and depth sounder/fish finder if desired. The foregoing arrangement has proven very satisfactory. Notably, several of our friends that decried the usefulness of a chart plotter at the helm installed one of their own after traveling with us.

FWIW...
 
#22 ·
My boat does not have a dodger because it's not big enough. There's not enough width to protect, and no side decks to step around a dodger.

I also dislike instrument pods. In addition to blocking your view with unnecessary fiberglass, they make it even harder to get around the wheel on small boats like mine. I have an 8" tablet mounted at the helm on a RAM mount. It's all screen area with no buttons, so its profile is minimal. When I am sitting, it is above my line of sight. When standing, it is below my line of sight. I'll snap some pictures at some point. And it is quickly removable if I ever do want to get it out of my way. I can also rotate it to view from astride the wheel or forward of the wheel.

Everything is a tradeoff, and in my case having the chartplotter close enough to see AIS icons and informational text, and to tap the screen to turn off collision warnings, is very important to me. If there are large ships close enough to set off alarms (which is unavoidable on a busy river), I cannot be leaving the helm to acknowledge alarms. I've positioned the tablet so that it does not block my view makes it a no-brainer. But that's just for my own situation, and I continue to believe that there is no single answer that is optimum for everyone.
 
#24 ·
My boat does not have a dodger because it's not big enough. There's not enough width to protect, and no side decks to step around a dodger.
What is the canvas in the pictures that are part of your signature?

I also dislike instrument pods. In addition to blocking your view with unnecessary fiberglass, they make it even harder to get around the wheel on small boats like mine. I have an 8" tablet mounted at the helm on a RAM mount.
The RAM mounts are convenient, and there are a number of options to clip to the bows of a dodger.

I'm not familiar with the Catalina 250. The Catalina 22 in all it's manifestations, including the Capri, has plenty of room to walk forward on side decks. Do you have to step up from the cockpit seats all the way to the cabintop?

Everything is a tradeoff, and in my case having the chartplotter close enough to see AIS icons and informational text, and to tap the screen to turn off collision warnings, is very important to me. If there are large ships close enough to set off alarms (which is unavoidable on a busy river), I cannot be leaving the helm to acknowledge alarms.
I agree with you about acknowledging alarms. PITA. I'd love to be able to set a mode that is "no alarms" - in good weather and lots of visibility I can see the 8-story slab of steel I'm passing. Sometimes I just turn the AIS off completely (New York Harbor, Annapolis anchorage, Thimble Shoals Channel, Charleston, Ft Lauderdale, Miami, ...) because the alarms become a bigger problem than the value-add of the data. I can always turn it back on.

Deliveries are easier as I'm likely to have a crew member that can be dedicated to hitting the acknowledge button.

I'd love to have a simple flashing indicator in the databar rather than a beeping indication with a pop-up that blocks the screen. The next meeting of the USCG GMDSS Task Force is coming up - I'll talk to my colleagues about whether we can encourage manufacturers to support that sort of mode.
 
#23 ·
I've been using GPS (in place of Loran) with paper charts from the early days of GPS, then GPS with a laptop chart plotting software, then chartplotters. I've found them to be totally reliable - period. I've experienced making mistakes with paper charts while plotting positions more often than any electronics glitches or failures. I am completely comfortable navigating with paper charts, but they just do not compare. Maybe someday my chartplotter will fail me, but so far it has not.

I like mine within easy reach from the helm.
 
#26 ·
We currently have navigation equipment below and sailing instruments above. We'll be changing this and installing navigation equipment at the helm and in the cockpit. I think much of this decision is how you sail, where you sail, your budget and personal preference, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Radar and AIS is a compelling reason for us to have chart plotters in multiple locations, we'll probably add AIS instrument below where they can be read while in a bunk.
 
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