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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Cape Fear 38
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-21-2008 12:30 PM
camaraderie Post #23 by PRoss undeleted as requested.
06-21-2008 08:28 AM
PROSS I deleted my post about this boat. If it still exists, would a moderator please repost it here? I deleted the post instead of doing a spelling edit. I think the tone of the rant and some points made in that post should be read, since this thread has been mentioned and linked elsewhere.
I think it's important to note that the prototype was the boat used to sell, at that time, the incomplete production boats.
04-27-2007 11:59 AM
PROSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHOOSH
Whatever a Cape Fear 38 is, it isn''t a cruising-capable boat (as claimed by the company)...and I continue to tire at boat builders who choose the ''racer/cruiser'' label for such self-enriching purposes.

This boat appears meant to be sailed from marina to marina. ''Cruising'' is not synonymous with weekending a few miles down the Bay. Electrical generation & storage for liveaboard needs while on the hook? Anchors (that''s more than one...), chain + nylon rodes, windlass...where do they go? A saildrive for extended cruising? Right. Is there a neat little space for the watermaker, given scant tankage. Lots of room for jerry jugs since the fuel tank is most likely also small? Geesh...

If you''ve walked around Bald Head Is. (where the owner of the yard and the guy who wanted a custom design for himself, then thought he''d start a boat building company, too), you might get the impression that''s not where experienced cruising sailors retire to, nor where clever designs suitable for cruising sailboats originate. However, it might be a likely place to find a few Marketing guys who like to write creative marketing copy because they think it will sell boats.

Jack
I had to bump this and add to it. Jack is SPOT ON !!!!! I was contacted by the designer Feb 1999 to meet with an owner of a 30/30 who wanted a 31 ft "sportboat". Owner wanted to race with his young children in stable comfort. He also owned a Sabre 42 and claimed to be a lover of great ocean cruising as well. His family owns an island(Balh Head notice the BHR hasnt YET posted results!!!) and he is an architect with FANTASTIC vision and ability to sketch anyones thoughts with the skills of a vetran police scetch artist.
I agreed to sign on and months of waiting for drawings and finalization of contracts etc. I wanted to move back to Wilmington, love building boats(my weakness)and was willing(apparently) to sell my soul to do so. To make what this horrid experience short, lets just say the "drawings" never ever ever ever appeared..........only stations, developed by "Owner" and "designer" based on the combination of SEVERAL hull forms. The result is the bigle shaped confused hull. After a meeting at the plug I was approached and talked into stretching the length to make the stern more asthetic!!!!!!!!!!! This process stopped several months later when the boat had reache a staggering 38 ft all in one foot attempts, EACH time modifying the plug to accept these new shapes.(not one single staion presented by the duo worked NOT ONE!!)
The deck "rendering" I was shown was that of a nice sporty shape. THEN they dumped the truth of this mess.........."Owner" claimed the boat MUST have 6'3" standing head room!!!!!!!!!! @#$%^&*@($ They actually had me REMOVE the stations around b-max from the strongback and hold them against the shop wall and trace them. THEN they drew HUGE cabins on the deck cambers!!!!!!!!!!!!!(this meant taking the plug apart!!!!!) Go to my photos in Photobucket under Cape Fear 38 to see the cartoons on the wall Tynaje/Cape Fear 38 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting , TOTAL LUNACY!!!! (you gotta wonder where my head was at for allowing this nonsence)
My contract gave me ownership of the toolong for future production( I am a one off builder-------the industry does NOT need another run of the mill production builder!!!!!!!!) I built the deck,cabin and cockpit without a SINGLE drawing!!!!!!!!!!!! The cabin was done by "owner" and interior was in sketch form........... "designer" did in fact draw the mast and blades......Given this thing was meant to race ,I built that racing cockpit. I was SOO embarrased and ashamed of that horrible cabin and absolute confused purpose I had to remove myself from the equation. I greed to complete the tooling but not one step beyond. I built the boat over a hard plug, inside laminate, core, outside laminate and fairing. This lead to the smooth interior of hull #1, no need for heavy liners etc.( I HATE liners) Hull #1 was rolled over interior structure and structural furniture etc.
THEN (this is where Jack hit the nail on the head) "Owner" and "designer decide they want to become a boatbuilding company. NOT ME , I wanted NO part of the direction this group was headed. I rolled the boat back over, hired several people and formed Cape Fear Yachtworks. The project was completed by Peter Ross Yachts while allowing CFY to use my accounts to establish themselves(DUMB DUMB MOVE.)
After purchasing a chopper gun the tooling started and in 10 days two molds were done and so was I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a perfect example of a barstool sailor with too much money to burn, gets the bug to better his barstool buddies. Oh and a note on the need for his head room based on his size.........what good does headroom do if you are sick in your bunk day in and day out..........
That poor confused boat........it really is a mess and would have been fantastic with 6 inches off the sheer, rid that massive clump of glass cabin, taper a proper rig, correct keel and STOP using vinyester resin backed by epoxy(passed off as an epoxy boat)(oh and I NEVER put a single piece of carbon OR kevlar in #1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Creative marketing YES oh YES indeed VERY "creative" indeed.
I have waited several years to blurt this for many reasons, mostly to wait til I calmed down a tad.........this IS calmer, also to make certain they were DONE !!!!!!!! I do love building boats and this experience really got my goat , I never saw the "setup" coming("ownwer" and "designer" clearly intended to create a boat co and needed a hothead builder to start and walk away)
Sorry for the rant but this is so much what the industry does not need.... The bit about "sailors building boats for sailors" is a JOKE, not one of them is capable of taking aboat away from the doack alone, not one of them. This shocked me most. I actually drove 800 miles home EVERY weekend just to sail on a real boat with REAL sailors!!!!!!!
Good Luck Kent and Bruce
08-01-2002 08:22 PM
dhartdallas
Cape Fear 38

Sail with you later guys. I''m weighing anchor.
08-01-2002 08:12 PM
rickseaya
Cape Fear 38

Bruce, gald to see you over here in the Sailnet forum. I had the opportunity this week to see hull number one in Wilmington and look forward to seeing the new r/c version in Annapolis. She has beautiful lines and looks like a real speedster. I was also pleasently surprised with the looks below. Now to convince the wife...

Thanks,

Rick Payne
08-01-2002 04:00 AM
DuaneIsing
Cape Fear 38

Kudos to all involved for this interesting, well-reasoned, and polite discussion.

Jack, whenever I''m going to post a lot of text via a web site, I always compose the message off-line in a text editor. I can then save it often as I go. When ready, I copy/paste the text into the message I''m posting.

That saves me the frustration of losing a lot of work if/when there is a cyber-hiccup. It also allows me to spell check, if desired, but you don''t seem to need that feature.

I''ll look forward to seeing the CapeFear 38 at Annapolis in Oct, as well. Fair winds all.

Duane
07-31-2002 04:52 PM
BruceMarek
Cape Fear 38

Tankage on the Cape Fear 38 is approximately 60 gallons of fuel and 50 gallons of water. Also, there is plenty of space in the starboard aft "mechanical room" for a watermaker or an additional tank.

To Jack - it is always tough to guess which model will do best first. When I was involved with the Morgan 45, they ended up selling 7 race deck versions, and about 52 cruising deck versions. Morgan introduced them simultaneously at the 1982 Annapolis Show. It was great. If someone on the cruiser wanted more performance, they were sent over to the racer, and vice versa. I think 15 boats were ordered at the show.

On the Santana 30/30 the racer cruiser came first, and a year later the Grand Prix 30/30 was introduced. About equal numbers, I think 45 of each were sold. On the Schock 34, the Grand Prix boat came first, selling only 3 boats. The next year, the Performance Cruiser came out, selling 30 something boats.

If it can''t be done simultaneously, then maybe the more racier version should be first. We definitely seem to be getting feedback onto what our boat should have. Hopefully when these changes get implemented, the boat will interest you for your next cruising/voyaging adventures.

To Jeff - The anchor well was a little small on the prototype boat at the show last year. We have since angled the top of the Anchor Locker Bulkhead aft about 10 degrees, which gained us about 8" in the anchor well and its lid, with virtually no noticeable change to the foreward stateroom size. I believe we are also a few inches deeper, making the addition of a windlass more credible. I have only had to anchor once with the boat, and the bow sprit/bow roller seemed to work fine. The 2'' sprit does keep the anchor from dinging up the shapely plumb bow.

To Jack (or any other interested buyer)- I am also a structural engineer in addition to being a longtime yacht designer. If you buy a Cape Fear 38, and have particular strength concerns, I would be glad to sit down with you and go over loads and safety factors with you.

Bruce Marek
07-31-2002 04:52 PM
BruceMarek
Cape Fear 38

Tankage on the Cape Fear 38 is approximately 60 gallons of fuel and 50 gallons of water. Also, there is plenty of space in the starboard aft "mechanical room" for a watermaker or an additional tank.

To Jack - it is always tough to guess which model will do best first. When I was involved with the Morgan 45, they ended up selling 7 race deck versions, and about 52 cruising deck versions. Morgan introduced them simultaneously at the 1982 Annapolis Show. It was great. If someone on the cruiser wanted more performance, they were sent over to the racer, and vice versa. I think 15 boats were ordered at the show.

On the Santana 30/30 the racer cruiser came first, and a year later the Grand Prix 30/30 was introduced. About equal numbers, I think 45 of each were sold. On the Schock 34, the Grand Prix boat came first, selling only 3 boats. The next year, the Performance Cruiser came out, selling 30 something boats.

If it can''t be done simultaneously, then maybe the more racier version should be first. We definitely seem to be getting feedback onto what our boat should have. Hopefully when these changes get implemented, the boat will interest you for your next cruising/voyaging adventures.

To Jeff - The anchor well was a little small on the prototype boat at the show last year. We have since angled the top of the Anchor Locker Bulkhead aft about 10 degrees, which gained us about 8" in the anchor well and its lid, with virtually no noticeable change to the foreward stateroom size. I believe we are also a few inches deeper, making the addition of a windlass more credible. I have only had to anchor once with the boat, and the bow sprit/bow roller seemed to work fine. The 2'' sprit does keep the anchor from dinging up the shapely plumb bow.

To Jack (or any other interested buyer)- I am also a structural engineer in addition to being a longtime yacht designer. If you buy a Cape Fear 38, and have particular strength concerns, I would be glad to sit down with you and go over loads and safety factors with you.

Bruce Marek
07-31-2002 03:33 PM
WHOOSH
Cape Fear 38

Since I''ve already written this reply once before (does anyone else have their text disappear thanks to Sailnet servers?), I can only give the short version this time due to time.

Applause to Mr. Marek. It may be the first time that a boat builder would take the time to show up on a BB to discuss his boat. Boy, is that refreshing.

The comment about Graham and the DOVE is a red herring. Just like the Cal 27 that finished a circumnavigation recently with no structural issues, this doesn''t mean diddly about what a good boat choice might be for cruising. Besides, I''m sure Mr. Marek isn''t marketing his boat to satisfy singlehanded males on shoestring budgets. That really doesn''t speak to the issues as we''ve discussed them.

If I read Mr. Marek''s comments correctly, they recognize the need to change the deck mold so that the cockpit can accommodate the cruising-oriented (non-racing) audience they''d like to attract...and they need that audience to fund the new mold. That''s a suitable illustration of the point I was trying to make.

Can this boat go offshore? Around the world? Sure; the Cal 27 did. Does the boat deserve to be billed as a cruising boat? Incrementally, as they modify the boat to accommodate these needs, that will obviously help. OTOH builders who like to use the ''racing/cruising'' label are IMO trying to cover lots of bases and may be doing so for marketing reasons, not as a result of the original design brief. Buyers need to look closely at whether one size really fits all.

Jack
07-31-2002 10:11 AM
Jeff_H
Cape Fear 38

Mr. Marek:

Thank you for taking the time to talk to some of the issues raised in the above discussion. I did have two additional items that I thought were valid points of concern.

1. When I was on board talking to you we had a discussion about an option of reducing the opening to the forward cabin and then creating a U shaped or L shaped dinette that would provide room for additional storage and tankage. I could not find tankage capacities on the website and so I was working from memory, a memory somewhat clouded by a long day looking at a lot of boats at the show. If you don''t mind, could you touch on the storage and tankage options.

2. I think that Jack''s point about anchoring is valid as well. It seems to me that there was an anchor rode locker but could you talk about how you view the anchor storage, rollers, and windlass situation on the CF38.

I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation at the show and appreciated the time that you spent talking with me. As you can probably tell I was extremely impressed with the Cape Fear 38. Thank you again.

Respectfully,
Jeff Halpern
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