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  Topic Review (Newest First)
4 Weeks Ago 03:28 PM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Mark, feel free to delete your posts above, to be continued here

(Theory) top-up charging LA from LFP, no boost
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electr...-no-boost.html

if you like that is, input from anyone much appreciated!
4 Weeks Ago 01:34 PM
colemj
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Still confused. If you have a LFP bank, why are you still considering big $$$ LA banks? I just assumed you were considering small start LA batteries with a LFP house bank like we have.

If your charging sources are set to LFP profiles, they will not "ramp up" when a LA battery is brought in-line. Cutting off an out-of-range charging source is the provence of a bog-standard simple BMS circuit connected to a relay. I don't understand what/why you want to make that more complicated, or perhaps you haven't researched how LFP banks are typically installed.

We allow our LA batteries to accept charge current at the voltage setpoints of the LFP bank (13.8V). We have no dedicated charging for the LA batteries - they are combined with the LFP bank when the alternators are running.

Now the part that I really don't understand: if you have a genset, why would you need to run the engine for charging at all? And why do you consider running the engine a "fossil-fuel" event, but not the genset? If you are needing to run charging sources multiple times per day, then your problem is battery bank size or battery loads.

Mark
4 Weeks Ago 01:14 PM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

delete
4 Weeks Ago 08:36 AM
colemj
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
My original question here wrt one-way flow control, is from my speculating that even a 90% SoC Lead bank would pull a decent charging current from an LFP bank resting at 13.6-7, no DC voltage converter needed. Maybe enough to get all the way to 100%, depending on their relative size.
I don't understand what you wish to do, and why one-way control is necessary for any of the things you list - but for this one, what you speculate is exactly how we charge our LA start batteries with our LFP house bank. When the engines are on, relays automatically combine the LA start batteries to the LFP house bank. I can also manually combine them when other charge sources are present (or whenever I want).

The answer to your speculation is that a 90% SOC LA start battery pulls very little current at all when connected to a 13.6-13.7V source. Heck, even when we were all LA, a 90% full start battery drew little current at 14.8V. 2-3A at most, tapering down as the SOC goes up.

I suppose that the current at this SOC would be proportional to bank size, so a large bank would draw more.

BTW, max charge voltage of 13.6-13.8V is not ideal for a LA battery, and will probably result in a decreased lifespan. For our $80 start batteries, we are willing to exchange a lower lifespan for simplicity and cost saving (we can replace them several times for the cost of a DC-DC converter or dedicated alternator). For a more expensive bank, a better solution would be more economical and practical.

Mark
4 Weeks Ago 01:38 AM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

My hijack of this thread has gotten out of hand, will start a new one.
4 Weeks Ago 03:23 PM
Maine Sail
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Ah yes the Duo is in many ways like a DCDC Charger, custom top-limit on output voltage very useful for unlike banks and double the Amps capacity vs the EC, thanks for pointing that out.

And I wasn't raising any issues with all the other simpler ACRs etc , just keeping the focus on the one-way flow control, which it seems (so far) none do.


So, the current list:

Balmar Digital Duo, 30A limit, shuts down if target attempts to pull more (!)

Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger, 15A (corrected)

DC-DC converter-chargers (Sterling? 120A but $$)

Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch, sky's the limit but $$$

Old-school ("blocking"?) diodes, but only if efficient ones can be found, so far too much heat waste and voltage drop.
Again without knowing your intended use it's impossible to suggest a product. I really have no idea why you would need or want a DC to DC charger capable of 120A but they are available and yes they get expensive.. I sell the Sterling 12V to 12V 30A (Mid $200.00's IIRC) and 60A models (mid $300.00's IIRC) and they are quite a value for what you are getting. Still they may not be a good fit for what you are trying to do. I can also get Perfect Switch stuff but they also sell direct to the consumer and have a whole host of options usually too confusing for many to sort out. I sell more Blue Sea ACR's than anything but also sell a ton of Echo Chargers and Duo Chargers.
4 Weeks Ago 12:31 PM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
What are you trying to use this for that "one-way" charging is so critical....? This is important and you keep putting it off.
It's only critical as one possible element in a given design scenario that has multiple solution paths. Deserving of its own thread at some point, but not well enough developed yet.

I figure at this stage of my learning, better to ask for help on specific points of fact, rather than wasting the community's time on overall approaches that I may figure out aren't practical on my own.


I have been making progress through Stu's excellent 101 level "foundation course" pile o' threads here, Electrical Systems 101

I have learned enough to spot lots of stuff that could use updating with new developments over the years.

New thread here, asking for suggestions, discussion about a wiki: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/274817-there-editable-mobile-electrics-alternative-energy-wiki-somewhere.html
4 Weeks Ago 10:45 AM
mitiempo
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Thanks, edited above.

That's a major limitation with the Duo....

Is the EC OK that way?
Yes.
4 Weeks Ago 08:14 AM
Maine Sail
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Thanks, edited above.

That's a major limitation with the Duo, doesn't take a big battery to demand that much depleted!

I would have thought any device in that function would be designed to just limit the current and keep charging?

Is the EC OK that way?
What are you trying to use this for that "one-way" charging is so critical....? This is important and you keep putting it off.
4 Weeks Ago 04:02 AM
john61ct
Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

Thanks, edited above.

That's a major limitation with the Duo, doesn't take a big battery to demand that much depleted!

I would have thought any device in that function would be designed to just limit the current and keep charging?

Is the EC OK that way?
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