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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger > Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico
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Thread: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-12-2014 09:40 PM
christian.hess
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

man I have no idea how my wooden boat survived at sea then as well as countless others, by design...no wooden boat is ever 100 percent watertight and yet many of us still voyage on them and sometimes fantastically...with great seaworthy results.

the issues with the union polaris is that wood is used in structural areas that are then not integrated to the glass parts in a real good way even new, dont even get me started with the deck structure(I still have nightmares about that union 36 I checked out in panama that was abandoned)...and that was the boat builders errror and not the designers...

in any case

Im absolutely flabbergasted btw that this thread still keeps on keeping on...(so thats why Ill add some fuel to the fire, ajajajajja)

peace
08-11-2014 01:24 PM
lowtide
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
There was photos of huge holes in the deck where the wood had rotted away. And this wasnt timber over fibreglass deck, this was timber over stringers.

The photos are in this thread somewhere and on CF.

The point is that most of the rotted wood was not fixed. There were forum pists and blob posts saying that.

I think the area they lived in, San Diego, then Baha, is very dry and the water through the deck problem was not apparent till they went to sea.

Once at sea they saw the water ingress and changed their minds as to the ability of the boat to be safe.
Another example of the difference between living aboard, coastal sailing in fair weather, and ocean voyaging.

At the dock and in fair seas, the leak is only an issue when it rains really hard, and is easily solved with a bowl in the right place. At sea, the leak sprays water under pressure in many directions, and it runs everywhere as the boat yaws, pitches, and rolls.

The rain storm leak ends quickly and the mess is easily cleaned up, where as a leak at sea is relentless, and only ever gets worse. Often such leaks result in water being tracked throughout the boat, creating a wet miserable enclosed existence, with no end in sight.

Watertight integrity needs to be 100%, 90% won't do on a voyage longer than a reliable forecast. The salty stuff has to stay outside. No chance of that with the Elmer's at the hull/deck joint, 0%.

'
08-11-2014 10:10 AM
MarkofSeaLife
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
If so, then Rebel Heart was even less worth salvaging and wouldn't have had much chance of being worth the cost of salvage.

There was photos of huge holes in the deck where the wood had rotted away. And this wasnt timber over fibreglass deck, this was timber over stringers.

The photos are in this thread somewhere and on CF.

The point is that most of the rotted wood was not fixed. There were forum pists and blob posts saying that.

I think the area they lived in, San Diego, then Baha, is very dry and the water through the deck problem was not apparent till they went to sea.

Once at sea they saw the water ingress and changed their minds as to the ability of the boat to be safe.
08-11-2014 05:44 AM
smackdaddy
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
If so, then Rebel Heart was even less worth salvaging and wouldn't have had much chance of being worth the cost of salvage.
Exactly. And it's yet another reason for the sentiment that this family should have never been out there in the first place.
08-10-2014 07:03 PM
rgscpat
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
....
RH himself said the boat was rotted and leaking. Stick with the facts. This boat was a disaster.
If so, then Rebel Heart was even less worth salvaging and wouldn't have had much chance of being worth the cost of salvage.
08-10-2014 06:25 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
So as someone suggested, go read it because theres more lessons to be learned in this 'incident' than 100 wanky Coast Guard courses and Celestial Navigation courses teaching you to butt shove a sextant.
+FREAKIN1 Mark.

As you say, the problem is that no one can get the facts now because these chuckleheaded rotrebels have erased those facts in order to try to make themselves look rational and win a very questionable lawsuit.

Again - NO RESPECT. NONE. ZERO.

No BFSoup for you RH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
As for "was the boat really leaking?", I think we'd have to trust the word of the rescue personnel who spent time on the boat.
RH himself said the boat was rotted and leaking. Stick with the facts. This boat was a disaster.
08-10-2014 04:36 PM
rgscpat
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

For what it's worth, here are my wild and crazy guesses about salvage:
$ 75,000 initial value of boat
vs.

$ 30,000 charter of ocean-capable towing vessel with salvage capability and 2,000-plus nm endurance/range, including salvage costs for pumping and patching. This may be optimistic.

$ 15,000 possible charter of light jet or medium turboprop search aircraft
(no homing beacon on Rebel Heart, airplane can somewhat take its place, otherwise salvage vessel may take a long time to find boat or risk it sinking first)

$ 20,000 cost of repairs to hull and interior, cleanup, etc.

Net: Possible $10,000 savings from salvage

BUT:

With a boat far offshore that might sink before they can reach it, a salvage company seems highly unlikely to offer a "no cure no pay" contract, so all risk and cost would be put on charterer. If Rebel Heart sank before a salvor could arrive, then the cost to the Kaufmans would have just about doubled.

Most "deluxe" or "gold" coastal towing policies will pay a moderate amount for towing beyond their service limits, but this might only be around $2500 - $5000 -ish, so not likely much help.

As for "was the boat really leaking?", I think we'd have to trust the word of the rescue personnel who spent time on the boat.
08-10-2014 02:51 PM
MarkofSeaLife
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

You are missing the points that the boat wasnt worth anything!!!!!!!!

It was leaking through the deck from the pointy end to the bow and the blunt end all the way to the stern. It wasnt worth diddly squat!

A salvor will ask for multiple THOUSANDS per DAY. Tug here the other day pulled a boat off the beach, took 10 minutes and was well done. But it coast $2,000 per HOUR. and he traveled 25 minutes each way to get there.

Now, lets hit the phone book and see who is going to go 900 miles west and pick up a boat worth NOTHING and tow it UPWIND, UP-CURRENT for 900 nms?


they got off the boat because they did a risk cost benefit analysis and decided their lives would be forfeit if they tried to sail on for another 2,000nms.


And unless you have read ALL the posts on this and the other threads, the owners website before it was 'redacted' then you wouldn't know any of the facts to come to a real conclusion... So as someone suggested, go read it because theres more lessons to be learned in this 'incident' than 100 wanky Coast Guard courses and Celestial Navigation courses teaching you to butt shove a sextant.





Mark
08-10-2014 02:37 PM
UnionPacific
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

besides, we are taking the word of a man suing a phone company for having to scuttle his own boat. How are we sure it was sinking?
08-10-2014 02:24 PM
UnionPacific
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

If the track was good, the cost would have been minimal. The independent salver has the say in what the rescue cost, but I think it would have been worth it, if it had passed an insurance survey.
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