SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger > Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
3 Days Ago 08:47 PM
fryewe
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

The boat wasn't scuttled for lack of phone service. The boat wasn't scuttled because it was unseaworthy (although it's condition seemed to be degrading).

The boat was scuttled because Eric chose to abandon it and to scuttle it as he left it.

The medical advice they are insisting would have solved all their problems (if only that darn phone had worked!!!) was eventually provided by the pararescue team and the frigate that responded. The boat was still afloat and seaworthy when they got that assistance, and the child whose health had been at risk was reportedly no longer at risk at the time of frigate rendezvous.

Their dream of sailing to the south seas was aborted due to their own poor planning and lack of grit when the going got tough. Some day I hope they feel embarrassed for demanding that someone else pay for their mistakes.
3 Days Ago 08:04 PM
miatapaul
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
There is a very good chance that Eric's statement will be inadmissible as irrelevant. What does it go to prove? That Eric knew that the company might be negligent? Assumption of the Risk? Unlikely.

If you ride the CTA bus, and twice before you got in accidents because the bus driver was negligent, would that be a defense for the third accident? Unlikely.

Not saying they will win. Not saying they will lose. But that is sort of the analysis.
Well since he said repeatedly that sat phones were not reliable to use as a safety device, at the very least it shows that the lawsuit is disingenuous. Of course when there is profit to be made, your intentions can change, especially when a lawyer starts making promises. In the CTA case they caused an accident, in the sat phone case, they have never promoted it as a safety device but as a convenience. There contract clearly states that they are not to be held liable for laps of coverage. And certainly it did not cause the loss of the Rebel Heart. They had several mechanical and structural failures.
3 Days Ago 05:34 PM
zeehag
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

strange how they were able to get help from air national guard, out of north cali when they needed help,and strange how these rescuers were on board when the alleged calls went out.
no fone company caused any loss of boat.
those of us with gps KNOW that satellite communications are interruptable unexectedly and for no reason other than running out of range of satellite.
i bellieve this had been discussed at length before this particular family set out on their misadventure.
splain the on boat rescuers vs inability to get help to me a few more times as i am not able to understand this part.
were i a juror in this fiasco i would have to rule on side of fone company on the merit of known information, published by both erik and charlotte as they went thru this.
facts is facts and there is a published timeline to read and know, as it has been published many too many times at this point.
3 Days Ago 05:09 PM
rgscpat
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Of course, if the company had to go to court and tell people that their equipment was not to be relied upon, and that as well had always been the company's position, that might not be the best thing from a marketing perspective.
3 Days Ago 02:24 PM
jzk
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

There is a very good chance that Eric's statement will be inadmissible as irrelevant. What does it go to prove? That Eric knew that the company might be negligent? Assumption of the Risk? Unlikely.

If you ride the CTA bus, and twice before you got in accidents because the bus driver was negligent, would that be a defense for the third accident? Unlikely.

Not saying they will win. Not saying they will lose. But that is sort of the analysis.
3 Days Ago 02:14 PM
miatapaul
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
If you buy a piece of safety equipment, is it reasonable that you would expect it to work? Even if you are a moron, should that safety equipment still work?
I think this has been linked before but here is Eric's (from Rebel Heart) take on using satalite phones for emergancy use:

Quote:
I would never rely on an Iridium phone for my single connection to a satellite in an emergency.

Twice I've had the phone provider deactivate my SIM card. Once because of a billing error, another time for some unknown reason. On both accounts I was still on shore and could call with a cellular phone to fix the issue, but it drove home for me that they are not emergency gear.

They also don't float and although the new "extreme" model is water resistant they're hardly waterproof.

An EPIRB you buy, it's built like a tank, you mount it, and it sits there waiting like a patient sentinel for years if you ever need to use it. It has its own GPS.

I also probably use my Iridium more than anyone else does (~100-500 minutes a month); they are finicky. No way are you going to sit there in some horrible storm reading the GPS position off a receiver in the life raft as your Iridium phone stays on a perfect connection and you rattle off your position. I guess it's possible but I'll stick with the EPIRB for emergencies.
Ship safety, SOLAS and national regulation - are they relevant to yachts - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I am sure this will show up in court. It was not new to him that he could get his phone cut off, I guess as they say third time is the charm. Unfortunately the third time was while he was in the middle of the ocean, but I am sure it came as no surprise to him. Ironic thing about his posts is he was very harsh against anyone who was not 100% prepared for offshore.
3 Days Ago 12:26 PM
SVAuspicious
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
If you buy a piece of safety equipment, is it reasonable that you would expect it to work? Even if you are a moron, should that safety equipment still work?
Consumer satellite phones are not safety equipment. There are good reasons that sat phones are not part of GMDSS despite applications from Iridium and Globalstar.
3 Days Ago 12:15 PM
smackdaddy
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
I guess the two questions are whether the limitations in the contract are valid and whether abandoning the boat was caused by the lack of sat phone service.
This latter part is what you need to look for - in this thread and on CF. I think you'll find the answer had a lot more to do with them than their sat phone.
3 Days Ago 12:07 PM
miatapaul
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Add to that that he made several public posts that sat phones are not suitable for emergency use. So I doubt there is much of a claim, as he already declared that they were not suitable for the use that he is now claiming he did not have access to.
3 Days Ago 11:58 AM
jzk
Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Thanks, I will look for the contract. I guess the two questions are whether the limitations in the contract are valid and whether abandoning the boat was caused by the lack of sat phone service.

Many limitations of liability clauses are simply not valid. And I am not sure that the abandonment is not a foreseeable result of the actions here.

If you buy a piece of safety equipment, is it reasonable that you would expect it to work? Even if you are a moron, should that safety equipment still work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnionPacific View Post
I do not know where the contract is now, I found it once before.

I like this tidbit I just found


Man, glad no one was sailing before epirbs and satellite phones single handed. Or for that matter that they don't do this now....
Seriously this lawyer knows nothing about sailing, so it seems.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:33 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.