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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel > Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals
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Thread: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-08-2014 06:59 PM
bristol299bob
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

To the point of which oil to use in the transmission, I agree it's confusing. The manuals, the internet, advice from mechanics .... Its all over the map. Too much conflicting info so I go by the label on the transmission.

my original kbw10 from 1979 said "ATF-A or SAE 20/30 HD". I used Dexron ATF in it since I believe that is about as close to ATF-A you can get in this century.

I replaced that transmission (... hmmm maybe this means something .... ) with a 1981 kbw10. That one said "ATF-A". No mention of a motor oil option. So I'm sticking to Dexron ATF in this transmission too.

I change the transmission fluid on the same schedule as the engine oil ... Every 100 hrs or once a year, which ever comes first.
06-08-2014 06:06 PM
smurphny
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

Proper indexing and cross referencing requires a lot of expertise in the subject being covered as well as the writing skills. Tech companies are long on technical know-how but seem to be short on basic writing skills and communication. Unfortunately, a sign of the times is that there are lots of tech wizards who never learned (or were never required to learn) essential language arts skills. I don't think they even know how bad some of these manuals are written.
06-08-2014 03:38 PM
hellosailor
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

The Ynglitch translation is the least of the problem. Good manuals of any kind require hiring a technical writer who is familiar with the field, and then having them spend several days or weeks with an engineer who really knows the product. Just to start. So, fine manuals become a matter of a week or two of skilled labor costs and many companies just won't pay that.

Then of course, hiring a translator, a native-language speaker who sometimes needs technical vocabulary as well...haha.

And indexing? No, really, that's where someone needs to spend more money on publishing software instead of just word processing, most of the time. Again, ain't gonna happen unless someone at that company perceives a need for that expense.

Case in point, consider Google. Try to find the manual for a Google Nexus5 smartphone. You can't! It doesn't exist. No index, no manual, not even a PDF file. If you really know how to use Google Search, you can find a web manual for the KitKat OS, but curiously enough, they have locked it out so it can't be printed.

One of the most cash-rich technical companies on the planet, and they can't even be bothered to write a simple manual for a simple product in their native language. Manuals cost money, good manuals cost more money. No one wants to spend it.
06-08-2014 02:39 PM
smurphny
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

Sometimes I wonder if the foreign companies that write translated service manuals ever bother to hire a native English speaker to try to make indexing and searching logical. Sometimes I wonder what they were thinking when a simple topic requires a three step procedure to make any sense of it. I have the service manual for my 3GM30F and have spent hours at times trying to find answers to the simplest questions like WHAT KIND OF OIL to use:-) It has all you'd ever want to know but it takes time to sort it out. I've run into the same issue with electronic equipment manuals. They are printed in English but seem almost nonsensical in the way they are organized and the way topics are explained.
06-02-2014 11:56 PM
christian.hess
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

thats exactly what it is...a disk and some gears and thats that

there is a saying in the old motorcycle world or motor world that ANY oil is better than no oil

so when in doubt just put something in...deal with it later
06-02-2014 10:57 PM
hellosailor
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

Christian-
Yes, I'm clear on either, not both at once. And that's still possibly the only maker or only gearbox I've ever heard of that says that. (In the little I know about gearboxes.)

That either makes it so incredibly advanced, or, such a crude old monster that it just has toothed gears on shafts that don't really care what they eat, I guess. Sometimes old, crude, simple machines that run forever is better than having finicky new ones that work better--but not as reliably.
06-02-2014 03:53 PM
christian.hess
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"I can take a pic for you...its in english..."
"I should correct..."
Ergh...correct to what? SAE 20/30 HD and not ATF, ATF was a different tranny?
I wasn't thinking of a translation error on your end, but rather from Japanese (?) into Ynglitch. Some of the "manuals" I've gotten from the Orient are incredibly funny. Go back 40 years or so, and many/most of them were crude-to-adequate. Hell, even Toyota, who were fairly big in the US at that point, had some odd phrases in their US car manuals.

I've learned that nothing is impossible (except getting anyone to do anything right or on time the first time) I'd just always heard that gearboxes were made for one or the other, never ATF and motor oil each good in the same box.

And that there's usually a reason specific lubes are used. While a number are "good enough" to misuse, there's usually some long term benefit in using the right one. Even better if you can get it off-label cheaper, sure, as long as it is the same stuff.
I know exactly what you are talking about...rebuild old honda motorcycles and stuff and youd be hard pressed to get halfway through without going nuts

having said that its pretty simple to see what the plate on you tranny says and use that

to note is that kanzaki (at least the kbw10 tranny) did change later models to only use atf...
06-02-2014 03:44 PM
christian.hess
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

hellosailor the kanzaki transmission states you can use EITHER that doesnt translate to mix at will

thats what I was saying...

ps although the kanzaki trannies are indeed made by yanmar use whatever the TRANSMISSION plates says to use...
06-02-2014 03:20 PM
hellosailor
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

"I can take a pic for you...its in english..."
"I should correct..."
Ergh...correct to what? SAE 20/30 HD and not ATF, ATF was a different tranny?
I wasn't thinking of a translation error on your end, but rather from Japanese (?) into Ynglitch. Some of the "manuals" I've gotten from the Orient are incredibly funny. Go back 40 years or so, and many/most of them were crude-to-adequate. Hell, even Toyota, who were fairly big in the US at that point, had some odd phrases in their US car manuals.

I've learned that nothing is impossible (except getting anyone to do anything right or on time the first time) I'd just always heard that gearboxes were made for one or the other, never ATF and motor oil each good in the same box.

And that there's usually a reason specific lubes are used. While a number are "good enough" to misuse, there's usually some long term benefit in using the right one. Even better if you can get it off-label cheaper, sure, as long as it is the same stuff.
06-02-2014 03:10 PM
christian.hess
Re: Yanmar 3GMD transmission oil confusion in manuals

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Interesting. I am surprised Yanmar would have such a wide range of lubricants. I know of older BMW cars that when the manual transmissions are hard to shift (especially in below freezing temps) some have used ATF in the gear box instead of the recommended gear oil- and it seems to have worked.
I have seen many transmission or gearcases spec different oil and or lubes depending on whats available

for example many recomend atf now especially the dexron 4 stuff which is really good

here is an interesting tidbit too

many motorcycle suspension shops and or mechanics prefer to use dexron 4 atf for their suspensions as the detergents and antifriction properties as well as antifoaming agents are preffered over the overpriced "suspension" fluid

its also widely known that many fork fluid is simply rebranded atf...but wuth 3 or 4 times a higher price

x2 on your bmw comment...

in any case...the kanzaki trannies are pretty robust and im sure any old bacon grease can work for a while

if it were me I would use what it had in there before me or if you want to change I would tear it apart clean meticulously and use your preffered lube, be it oil or atf...having said that, some clutches and or plates or disks will retain a fair amount of the old lube in them even after cleaning so its at your own risk when doing that

for example in wet clutch engines or motorcycles plenty of folks get all sorts of mad when simply switching brands of oil...or when they switch to an energy conserving oil...and creat all sorts of havoc...

in some cases its the oil...others its the owners not rinsing or sufficiently eliminating the old traces of oil from the clutch

anywhoo
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