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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard > Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!
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Thread: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
7 Hours Ago 01:14 PM
miatapaul
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

I don't have any issue at all with liveaboards who never go out. Sure I think they are missing out, but at least they are enjoying there boat and the water. What bugs me are all the boats (vast majority it seems) that never come back to the boat after they put it into the slip. Here we are mostly seasonal, and these guys pay to have the boat pulled, put into storage, then put into the slip (often by yard people) and never come down to them. Some of them very nice boats just sitting there never to be used. That seems like such a waste of money, and even more egregious, is the waste of nice boat.

Sure it is none of my business and sometimes there are issues that keep people away, but I am sure some of these boats have not been visited by the owners except on hull out day, or launch day for years. Some of them have not been visited for years, having others hull and launch. Just a shame. And I am not even talking about the derelict boats, but nice expensive boats. Most of the marinas around me have slips available, except of course the closest one to my kids, so it is not like it prevents other people from using the facilities.
8 Hours Ago 12:36 PM
travlineasy
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

Interestingly, we have a similar situation in the upper reaches of Chesapeake Bay where state and local municipal marinas also have a waiting list, often as long as 5 years or more. Same reason as CA - low prices and easy, year round access. However, most of the marinas here that are state and municipal are in shallow water areas, not conducive to sailboats drawing 5 feet or more. At low tide, a lot of the sailboats are sitting on the bottom, and the tidal range is just 2 to 3 feet at most.

Cheers,

Gary
8 Hours Ago 11:47 AM
WGEwald
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

Quote:
And, that is what makes the situation in places like California so complex, in that so many of the marinas are municipal yacht harbors, using public lands "held in trust" by the municipality, county, or whatever...
That point makes me change my position somewhat. Hadn't looked at it that way.
22 Hours Ago 09:52 PM
christian.hess
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

I was in half moon cheap and then monterrey exhorbitant to say the least

found great deals the best really at moss landing plus gravelles is still there

makes the bay look like cote azur expensive

you just have to search however I agree and fell victim to the prices and non liveabord issues the bay has

its really all complex, badly run, corrupt and extremely inefficient.
23 Hours Ago 09:22 PM
GeorgeB
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

the interesting thing is there are slips available at the higher priced private marinas whereas long wait lines in the public marinas. In places like Santa Cruz, Monterrey, Half Moon and Morrow Bays, the public marina is the only game in town. That means 100 - 150 miles of coastline is only served by the public sector. For years I was in a public marina owned and operated by the Port of Oakland. It was run down, but man - the rates were a real sweetheart deal. Long waits for slips though. They turned the operation over to a private operator, who rebuilt the slips and began charging the same market rates as the Alameda side of the Estuary. Overnight, all those never used boats vanished.
23 Hours Ago 09:18 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
I'm not sure of the legalities of the situation in California, but it sounds like we're talking about a limited public resource. Or maybe privately owned access points to a public resource?

If it's a limited private resource, and the owner is a savvy businessman, then the goal will be to maximize profits by charging as much as the market will bear.

But if it's a limited public resource, then the goal should be to maximize use.
EXACTLY... And, that is what makes the situation in places like California so complex, in that so many of the marinas are municipal yacht harbors, using public lands "held in trust" by the municipality, county, or whatever...

Things are complicated further, when the issue of slip transfers with the sale of a boat comes to the fore... Is it fair that a slipholder who decides to sell his boat can profit very handsomely - the value of a boat being increased by tens of thousands of dollars if the slip is part of the sale - simply as a result of being the beneficiary of their use of such facilities held in trust? Or, that people who have been on waiting lists for years, are being leap-frogged by buyers willing to pay such a significant premium with a boat purchase that allows them to 'cut in line', so to speak?

For those who might be suggesting there should be no 'regulation' whatsoever over how slips might be used, would they be willing to do away with the limit - typically around 10% of slipholders in most marinas in CA - that are allocated to full-time liveaboards? Well, in places like San Francisco Bay - where the costs of real estate and land-based residence are among the highest in the country - living aboard a boat even in the most upscale marina can often represent truly 'low cost housing'... If there were no restriction whatsoever on liveaboards, seems to me the marinas would eventually become the province of those looking primarily for comparatively affordable housing who are 'squatting' on public resources, in houseboats...

Again, I'm not advocating any particular solution, but simply trying to point out how complex this issue can become, at least in some parts of the country... Obviously, there are no easy answers here, but I still come down on the side of those who will avail themselves of such resources to actually get out on the water and USE their boats, as opposed to those who might simply be taking up space...

:-))
23 Hours Ago 09:11 PM
PBzeer
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

Quote:
With a far larger number of people wishing to sail than there are slips, I don’t think it is unreasonable for marinas to be used by people who actually want to use their boats.
If public, then yes. If private, then no.

It should be noted though, that the existence of a problem does not guarantee the existence of an acceptable solution.
23 Hours Ago 08:52 PM
WGEwald
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

More "other people ought to do what we think they should do." Pathetic. No wonder the government becomes more intrusive with a receptive populace to accept it.
23 Hours Ago 08:47 PM
GeorgeB
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

Tenoch, The Latitude 38 article(s) in general were referring to parts of San Francisco Bay and in particular Santa Cruz Harbor, where there are long waiting lists for slips and a sizeable minority of berthers are not utilizing theirs, making it extremely difficult (if not impossible) for people who want access to the water so they can maintain a boat and actually sail. In California, the BCDC and Coastal Commissions limit the number of live aboard permits.

The problem in Santa Cruz is acute – Being a municipal marina, the berthing rates are traditionally low and the waiting list is long – something like a twenty year wait for a slip (It’s “only” seven years in San Francisco!) Imagine having to cough up some $500 in grade school to reserve your slot so you have a shot at a slip before you are thirty. The second problem in Santa Cruz is people who haven’t owned a boat in years, subletting their slips at exorbitant rates. So Santa Cruz has done two things: 1) You have to actually use your boat in order to stay in the marina. Every boat must leave their slip at least once every six months, even if it means motoring over to the Harbor Master’s office so they can record the movement. No more “storing” your boat in the marina because it is cheaper than dry storage. And, 2) Sub-letting is now regulated. You may still retain your “rights” to an empty slip but the Harbor Office regulates the rate. Sub-leases are only good for six months. I think something like a quarter of the marina are forced to sub rent and must do the “marina shuffle” every six months.

With a far larger number of people wishing to sail than there are slips, I don’t think it is unreasonable for marinas to be used by people who actually want to use their boats. And those who are looking for long term storage should be doing that on the hard.
23 Hours Ago 08:45 PM
WGEwald
Re: Liveaborders that never leave the slip? I don't get it. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenoch View Post
The whole thing smacks of 'we need to get rid of those people who are not like us.....'
A common thread on SailNet I'm afraid.
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