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Unmanageable Mainsheet

20K views 95 replies 33 participants last post by  denby 
#1 ·
We've encountered a bit of a problem with our new-to-us Pearson P30. When close hauled or on a close reach in any kind of air at all, we find the mainsheet basically unmanageable. Sometimes we can't even get the mainsheet out of the cam cleat and, even if we do, even I am not strong enough to trim the main in sometimes. (It's not like I'm about to win any strongman competitions, but I'm no 90 lb. weakling, either.) We find ourselves sometimes having to pinch up enough to depower the main. As you can imagine: This doesn't do good things for ones speed.

The thing that gets us is the PO used to race our boat. We're wondering how in Neptune's name they managed that mainsheet? We're wondering if we're doing something wrong, but cannot imagine what.

We're wondering if we need to upgrade something? Here's what things currently look like:





The P30 normally has the traveller in the back. The PO moved it up and upgraded it to that Harken traveller you see in the 1st and 3rd pictures. That works like a charm :).

That cam cleat has pretty aggressive teeth. Once that thing clamps on, under load, it takes two strong men and a boy to get it loose.

What do y'all think?

TIA,
Jim
 
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#83 ·
I have '78 P31 with mid-boom sheating in the same location as yours. It has basically the same setup that (6/1 Harken) you are considering and it works very well. The only difference is I use 1/2" line which is easier on the hands. In light airs I just convert it to 4/1 by taking one loop off of the blocks.

Overall it works well, feels comfortable, simple to use. My cam releases by pulling down, and I would not want it the other way. In a high stress situation the last thing you want to do is have to stand up to release it.

And by the way, my compliments on keeping you mind open with all the different opinions coming your way...
 
#84 ·
Re: Unmanageable mainsheet

Your mainsheet has two problems. First, the blocks used do not have ball bearings. More than likely the PO took a much better system with him to his new boat. The older clamcleat with stainless jaws is a bear to operate. Second, the midboom sheeting leaves you with less leverage.

I suggest that you go to Layline's website and look at your options for various systems. You may want to go with fiddle blocks from Lewmar or Harken with a smaller cascade attached where the becket usually goes. This will give you a fine and gross adjustment system. The disadvantage is that you will have extra blocks moving across your cockpit. Try a new ball bearing fiddle block system first then add the cascade if needed.
 
#85 ·
Jim,
Kudos to you. You've gotten and absorbed a veritable ton of advise, made decisions, and changed them. Throughout you've kept perspective and open mindedness on a fairly expensive topic. I am impressed more than a little.

I think it's also time that you and the Admiral sit down and try to reach a consensus of where the boat project is going, if you have not done so already. It's easier to spend money on the things you want than the things you need. And every time I spend money on something to get me by, I end up kicking myself later for not buying the product that will meet my long term needs now. Hey!, I got an excuse, I'm Dutch. That being said, your main sheet blocks will in all likely-hood be the last you ever buy, for this boat or any other and, as you realize, if you buy what you want to spend you may well end up buying again with remorse similar to mine. The meeting with the Admiral might be to no other purpose than you jointly assigning priorities to boat gear. There are people in similar straits to you who go light on the blocks and turn about spending $1000 on custom cushions. A joint resolution to make the boat an all-weather sailer first, a comfortable and beautiful boat second will go a long way to "uneventful" sailing.

I suspect that you know all of this, I just wanted to emphasize the need for a consensus on the battle order. A list with 3-5 levels of priority will aid in that. Many people end up having a boat for years and never do get down to those level 5 items-they're too busy sailing. It's also not a bad idea to have assigned an individual frivolous budget to each person annually. That is money that may be spent unilaterally by either party on something for the boat without permission from the other party. The item may not be frivolous, but it may not be a 1 or 2 priority to the other party. I believe that it was under this provision that CruisingDad acquired his third bbq grill! This makes it just a bit less contentious when either person just has to have something but does not have the logical argument for it's purchase ready to hand. Personally I do not favor a roll-over option on the frivolous purchase clause. That's how you end up with a really expensive oil lamp you'll never use, doesn't fit in the boat, and cost multiples of tuition payments at decent colleges. Annual amount, use it or lose it, or donate to the other party on the strict understanding, "you owe me".

By now you've probably opened a smaller than expected package, gazed upon the contents, and proclaimed, "that's all I get for all that money?" Every time I come home from WM and empty out my sack I have the same feeling-seems like it looked much more substantial when I was buying it at the store than sitting on the counter at home. And the receipt looks far more substantial than it did on the register, when laid alongside the purchase at home. You'll be comforted by the fact that your fellow marina members will be willing to give you about a dime on the dollar to take it off your hands if they're feeling particularly loose with their money that day!

Good luck with the rigging. Again, I am impressed with your level-headedness.
 
#86 ·
Jim,
Kudos to you. You've gotten and absorbed a veritable ton of advise, made decisions, and changed them. Throughout you've kept perspective and open mindedness on a fairly expensive topic. I am impressed more than a little.
Thanks for the kind words :)

I think it's also time that you and the Admiral sit down and try to reach a consensus of where the boat project is going, if you have not done so already.
We've pretty much already done that. We work together well on this kind of thing, so, while there may be much discussion and gnashing of teeth, at times ;), we tend to come to mutually agreeable decisions.

It's easier to spend money on the things you want than the things you need.
Ah, well, you see: That won't be a problem for the nonce. As the common wisdom, borne of experience, goes: This boat has already cost us far more than anticipated. So the well's pretty much run dry for now. IOW: Unless it's absolutely necessary, it ain't gettin' bought. Right now there are only two "must have" items remaining: An oil pump-out adaptor for the A4 from Moyer and an adequate pump, and a rebuild kit for the head. The only near-term "big ticket" item is we're considering having the aft 1/3 of the cockpit deck taken-up, re-cored and re-glassed by a pro, then paint the decks (ourselves). We realize the running rigging, while in serviceable condition, is showing its age--some of it. So we've got a plan to start replacing that incrementally. That one shroud with a couple broken strands will be replaced this fall, and the remainder of the standing rigging inspected when the mast comes down on haul-out.

The only "non-essentials" that are on the list are (possibly) a backup hand-held VHF radio and a backup hand-held GPS. (We have the latter, but it's an old GPS II and doesn't work all that well. It's slow, hard to read, tends not to acquire satellites well...)

And every time I spend money on something to get me by, I end up kicking myself later for not buying the product that will meet my long term needs now.
Well I know that effect. It's been one of the stories of my life.

Hey!, I got an excuse, I'm Dutch.
So's my wife. Right "off the boat." We were married in a suburb of Amsterdam :).

A joint resolution to make the boat an all-weather sailer first, a comfortable and beautiful boat second will go a long way to "uneventful" sailing.
I think we both agree on that point.

It's also not a bad idea to have assigned an individual frivolous budget to each person annually. That is money that may be spent unilaterally by either party on something for the boat without permission from the other party.
We already do that. Have been doing it for about ever since we were married. We each get an "allowance" each pay day, to spend as we see fit. My Plastimo Iris 50 came out of my own, personal "piggy bank." One thing that prevents, other than arguments, is the "If you're getting this than I'm getting that" and then we end up broke from buying toys.

Good luck with the rigging. Again, I am impressed with your level-headedness.
Thanks! :)

Jim
 
#87 ·
Jim,

I realize that I'm more than a few days late to this party, so I hope this hasn't already been covered.

A few pages back you had a question about "conflicting" advice about sail trim using the traveler. One guy says sheet the sail hard and use the traveler to trim. Another says to ease the sheet and trim with the traveler. Both are actually correct, dependant on wind conditions. Sheeting in hard and trimming with the traveler helps me point a little higher in light wind. Setting the traveler to windward and easing the mainsheet puts twist in the sail in stronger winds. A set of teltails on the leach of the main will tell you how much twist you need. The bottom ones are easy, getting the top one to fly takes a little work.

Good luck with your mainsheet.

John
 
#88 ·
US27inKS,

I think somebody mentioned that in a mainsheet traveler question in the Learning To Sail" sub-forum. I'm not sure. But thanks for the info. I think I'll paste your comments into a "cheat sheet" file I have, that'll I'll occasionally re-print and keep on the boat.

Jim
 
#91 ·
We decided to go with the Harken 57mm Triple Carbo stuff, as you and I last discussed, Alex. Only I decided to go with the Ratchmatic instead of the manual switch, because the manual switch on that line is actually inside the hole in the middle of the sheaves, requiring you to stick something in there to flip it on/off. Kind of a dumb design, IMHO.

The bottom block was not in stock at the local place or their distributor, and we were told it'd be 7-10 days. Should be in anywhere from today to next Monday, depending on whether it's closer to the seven days or the ten days, and depending on whether they meant only business days. We're sure hoping it's this week, as we've only three weekends left until haul-out :(, and the next two are race weekends.

But wanted to give the local business our business and their price was competitive with the most aggressive of the 'net prices.

Jim
 
#90 ·
'When you moved the mainsheet forward you changed its leverage on the boom. Halfway up the boom would double the sheet tension, all else equal. A few options:

Get a mainsheet with 8 parts (yours is 4). Sheet tension would be back to normal. Maybe you could get away with 6.

Get a small vang and rig it between your becket and mainsheet. You use your old sheet for gross, low-tension adjustment, and the vang for fine, high-tension adjustment. I think Harken sells a complete system like this, but it must be very expensive. A 2-part vang would double the force on the boom, getting you back to your old sheet tension. A 4-part vang would quadruple the tension, so your sheet tension would be half of what it used to be when it was led to the end of the boom. These systems must be clumsy to use.
 
#95 ·
Yes I know RXBOT, but sailingdog posts often and I would like an answer from him.
I believe the original poster went with series 57 harken Carbo, similar to what I want
 
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