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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Pointing Trouble
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Thread: Pointing Trouble Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-15-2007 09:28 PM
tenuki It's been said sailboat racing is a pyrmid that starts with a base of boat prep. Way to go on the great finish!!
10-15-2007 09:24 PM
SEMIJim
Problem Solved!

We raced again yesterday. Between the new sails and the rigging getting straightened-out, Abracadabra now points higher and points equally well on both tacks .

Near as we could tell, we were able to point about as well as the best of the other boats in our JAM class yesterday.

As we were stowing things on our boat, following the race, somebody walked by and said "You guys really kicked some a** out there today. You better get over to the club for the results announcement, because you probably placed."

Turned out we won 2nd Place in our fleet and 3rd Place an JAM overall

Jim
10-14-2007 12:47 AM
tenuki anchor off the stern wuwei. problem solved... learn a rolling hitch, no bridle needed.
10-13-2007 10:33 PM
WuWei
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnHand View Post
Chris, have you ever tried using a bridle on the anchor rode to cure that?
We thought about it, but it seemed to be a pain in the Dj'bouti to do! If you guys have an easy (and good!) way to use a bridle, we are very receptive! The kellet DOES help, but, like I said, we are still squirrelly. We felt better last night when another boat was pointing the same as us, but then again, they had a broken bowsprit (no, it was not Reid!) and anchored to the side, too!
10-11-2007 09:53 PM
SEMIJim Thanks for your comments, Mike.

Yes, with what we've learned from our previous (and first) race, plus what I read here on SailNet in the "The finer points of sail trim" thread in Learning to Sail, plus what I'm learning from Dedekam's Sail and Rig Tuning, plus having the new sails on, plus having the standing rigging better-tuned than it was last outing: We hope to experience some pretty significant differences next time out . (Hopefully our new mainsheet blocks will be in by tomorrow, as well.)

Of course: The problem with all this new learning is internalizing it, integrating it, whatever. It will take time for all this learnin' to become second nature .

Meanwhile, come to find out: A sailmaker crew-member of the PO once made up a set of "experimental" sails for the boat in the last year the PO raced her. It seems they consist of a Kevlar main and #1, and a PenTex #3. PO says they "fit like a glove" and perform like nobody's business. I've asked him how much the man wants for the sails. Probably more than we can afford or justify, but maybe we'll get lucky and be able to get 'em dirt cheap If nothing else: Be nice to get at least the new #3, to go with the (current) new main, and light and heavy #1's.

Jim
10-11-2007 04:07 PM
mikehoyt Jim

May be a little late for this and you probably have enough info already. I will disregard the fact that you don't need more advice and just relate some experiences we have found.

1. MAIN & JIB
Our boat is 1979 and came with original sails. They too seemed in good shape. The boat seemed to sail well with them. When the wind blew up we would reef and then double reef as required and the boat still handled well.

We bought a new main in 2003. 2+2 configuration loose foot (2 full and 2 partial battens if anyone really cares). The difference was staggering. The only times we have double reefed the main since that time has been in 30knots of wind or more (true wind). We carry the full main until 20 knots upwind. Our boat is fractionally rigged so it is important to address the main first as it is biggest sail. There is also far less weather helm as the draft is farther forward. I should point out that at 5 years old this main is getting close to the end of its useful age. 30 years is good if you don't really care but in windy conditions or if at all concerned about performance or pointing newer is more comfortable and also faster.

#1. Bought a new #1. Didn't make as big a difference as the main on our boat but our friends had a masthead boat with an old 170 and an old 100% jib. Their new 150 was magic on that boat.

#3. When the wind and waves would come up and we would use #3 my wife would ask what we could do to make the boat perform better. My sailmaker had said #3. We put on a new #3 and the boat pointed 10 degrees higher and sailed approx 1/2 knot faster. Truly amazing.

RIG.
My friend and of course chief competitor spent a winter reading about rig tuning, bought a LOOS guage and then tuned the rig that Spring. He also faired his keel and did a bunch of other things others at our marina thought to be overkill. The boat pointed better and their boat came 1st in more than 2/3 of the races that year. Shortly after that I sheepishly asked if I could borrow his guage and of course he said yes. Find someone with a guage at your club and they will not only lend it to you but likely help you tune your rig.

It is all the little things that help. New sails do not compensate for bad sailing skills but when added with your growing experience and confidence and all the other little things you do give you a much more pleasureable experience.

Also go to a bookstore and find one really good book about sail trim or rig tuning and bone up over the winter. The trick is to find the one that is geared to the readers current level of skill and understanding.

The really good news is that if you learn a lot this year you will find that you still are learning even more as each year goes by. Makes sailing even more pleasurable.

Hope this helps

Mike
10-11-2007 12:02 AM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
OK, now who has found the best resourse for Loos Guages?
I don't know if they're the "best" resource, but: http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2...ry_Code=TENGAU

Jim
10-10-2007 11:58 PM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by soul searcher View Post
I had my mast in collum. or at least I thought so at the dock. It can look straight but if the top of the mast is off center with the keel then the boat is a bit differant
on one tack.
Yes, I imagine so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soul searcher View Post
getting the mast head centered with the boat was my biggest challenge. I did it with the boat in the water and it is realy hard to get this relationship worked out for a couple of reasons. There is hardly ever no wind so the boat is always listing one way or another.
Ah, well, we often have no wind. Really. ISTM that, in a no-wind condition and assuming the boat's sitting level in the water (should be easy enough to determine), you ought to be able to use a weighted halyard as a plumb-bob, no? Or, with the mast in column, stretch a halyard from one chainplate to the other. Should be equal distance on each side, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soul searcher View Post
The wrench in the bucket trick doesn't work.
Don't know that one.

Jim
10-10-2007 11:47 PM
SEMIJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
Should mention that my wire is 1/4" and 5/16". The prices I am seeing are about double for the pro version.
So you'd need the PT3. That's double the price of the PT2! *Ouch*!

That would definitely be out-of-the-question in my case.

Jim
10-10-2007 11:07 PM
soul searcher What I was trying to say about cheating the system in my earlier post was maybe not clear I apollogize.
I had my mast in collum. or at least I thought so at the dock. It can look straight but if the top of the mast is off center with the keel then the boat is a bit differant
on one tack. getting the mast head centered with the boat was my biggest challenge. I did it with the boat in the water and it is realy hard to get this relationship worked out for a couple of reasons. There is hardly ever no wind so the boat is always listing one way or another. The wrench in the bucket trick doesn't work. you have to sail the boat and tweek the caps between sailing trips. every time you move the mast head you have to put the rest of the mast in colum and this part is much easier to do under sail. when you sight the mast it would better if your eye were at keel level but thats impossible. one trick i learned was to stand in the saloon and sight the mast through my deck hatch. better perpective. but you need to sight it under a load not at the dock.
I still think you are right there and when I said equal side to side I diddn't mean in collum I meant tension.
I understand that racers will adjust the rig for conditions that day My boat is a cruising boat and I tuned for a 2000 pound load. which is about twenty knots with full sails and reefing there after. I don't know if I'm done yet but I'm very pleased for now. I know next I will want an adjustable backstay and genoa cars and true running backs for the stay sail and a canting keel and and and. You start screwing with this stuff and there is now end to it
I hate to say this on here but defender was the cheapest that i found for the loos and mine is the pro model.
hope this helps
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