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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Ancor Terminals: the must haves
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Thread: Ancor Terminals: the must haves Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-14-2012 08:22 PM
asdf38
Re: Ancor Terminals: the must haves

Old thread but it's covering different places to purchase terminals..

I wanted to add that McMaster has a whole selection covering heat shrink, adhesive heat shrink, and some that have solder built in (I'm not familiar with these). McMaster is fantastic and makes finding what you're looking for very easy.
10-26-2007 12:26 PM
geary126 Hey, so I don't have the link, but the crimp vs. solder debate has raged elsewhere on the board. Bottom line, argued by dozens, was that crimps are better on a boat. somebody, maybe don casey, did resistance testing on a variety of connections, and interestingly, made a case for crimp + brush on liquid heat shrink.
10-26-2007 09:24 AM
sailingdog A properly crimped connection actually has a fair amount of physical strength. Soldering a connection properly is not something most people can do consistently. Soldering also introduces galvanic corrosion issues, due to the different metals involved in a soldered join. Overall, it is far faster, safer and easier for most people to make a decent crimped connection, than it is for them to solder the wires.
10-26-2007 09:10 AM
zz4gta
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
You really shouldn't solder most connections on a boat. The problem with soldering a connection, is the solder causes the wire to become more rigid, and the connection is more subject to fatigue failure. Also, a soldered only connection can fail under a high load—which is why the ABYC specifications say that all electrical connections must be mechanically fastened, even if they are soldered.
I'm really not seeing how a soldered connection is a downfall (even on a boat). All crimper connections just squeeze a soft metal connector onto the bare wire. Normally, you can pull it off w/ bare hands. I'm not talking about a firm tug, but if you yank on that thing, the connector will come off before a soldered connection will break. And as far as vibration making the wire brittle, I've yet to see a connection where it broke due to the soldering. HOWEVER, I've seen litterally dozens of crimped connections fail under much more favorable conditions.

The ABYC reads as follows:
Quote:
Battery lugs designed for soldering are the only place
where the standards allow solder to be used as the only
means to secure a terminal connection to a conductor (E-
11.16.3.7). When stranded conductors are soldered they
become, in effect, a solid conductor. This solid conductor is
then susceptible to cracking and breaking from vibration
and flexing, resulting in high resistance and heat build-up.
For this reason, solid conductors of any kind are not
allowed by ABYC. In the case of a battery lug, it can be
soldered if the solder contact length is at least 1 ½ times the
diameter of the conductor.
Maybe they have 100's of documented cases showing solding is a poor way to make a connection. Which is strange, b/c its stronger and provides less of a voltage drop over the connection compared to crimped connectors. Not to mention its easier to get a waterproof connection over a soldered joint compared to a crimped one. And the brittle part? You shouldn't run your wires where they are going to be flexed a lot in the first place, but I'm willing to bet those butt connectors don't flex a whole lot either. And testing a crimped butt connection compared to a soldered join in a linear pull test, the solder will win.

SD, I don't want to sound like a ***** and this argument wasn't directed at you. I'd like to thank you for that reference, however, from my experience people don't like to solder connections because it is too time consuming, and a lot of the time they don't do it right. Not enough flux, too much solder, overheat the wire, in which case I agree that the crimped connection is simple, easy, and usually does the job. But to say that soldering is bad on boats just seems like a blanket statement that isn't correct.

Fair winds.
10-25-2007 11:47 PM
sailingdog You really shouldn't solder most connections on a boat. The problem with soldering a connection, is the solder causes the wire to become more rigid, and the connection is more subject to fatigue failure. Also, a soldered only connection can fail under a high load—which is why the ABYC specifications say that all electrical connections must be mechanically fastened, even if they are soldered.

As for tools... cheap tools are generally far more expensive than good tools. Getting the right tool for the job is generally the best plan—both financially and in terms of frustration...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
As for the original poster, I didn't see anyone recommend this, but my experience from working on race cars (extreme vibration) is that the only connection you can count on is soldering.
Some people may say a proper crimp is sufficient with shrink wrap That's nice, but a correct soldering of 2 wires is permanent and stronger than the wire itself. When I wire my boat this winter, all terminals will be soldered and shrink wrapped. And I'll be damned if I'll have an electrical issue. With as much motion as a boat has, I'm surprised no one suggested this. The only downside, most soldering irons req. 120v but they do make gas powered and some battery powered options.
10-25-2007 01:30 PM
zz4gta I've used some harbor freight stuff and its all worked pretty well. But for important / tough jobs, I go with a good name brand made in the USA w/ a lifetime no hassle warranty. If I break it, I don't want to explain how I broke it or mail it in w/ an explanation and wait a week for a replacement. I want a new tool now to finish the job.

As for the original poster, I didn't see anyone recommend this, but my experience from working on race cars (extreme vibration) is that the only connection you can count on is soldering.
Some people may say a proper crimp is sufficient with shrink wrap That's nice, but a correct soldering of 2 wires is permanent and stronger than the wire itself. When I wire my boat this winter, all terminals will be soldered and shrink wrapped. And I'll be damned if I'll have an electrical issue. With as much motion as a boat has, I'm surprised no one suggested this. The only downside, most soldering irons req. 120v but they do make gas powered and some battery powered options.

Edit: Do you need a pair of $50 crimpers, no, you can still get a good crimp w/ the cheapos. Do they make your job A LOT easier, hell yes. And even a cheap pair of strippers saves a lot of time over using a razor or knife.
10-25-2007 12:11 PM
pegasus1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougyoung View Post
I bought all my terminals at Harbor Freight. You can also get the stripper and crimper there as well.
What is the quality of tools from HarborFreight? I was interested in their heat gun, but the price is soooo low that I am suspicious that the quality will not be very good.

I would be grateful for feedback from any HF customers..

thanks
Micheal
10-25-2007 11:28 AM
Quickstep192 I really like the adhesive lined heat shrink connectors because I consider a crimped connector as highly subject to corrosion and encapsulating it slows that process. I use the ratchet type Ancor crimper and although it makes a very secure crimp, it's still only a mechanical connection and the space around the connection makes it subject to corrosion. For big connections (like battery cables), I crimp, solder and then cover in adhesive lined shrink wrap tubing

Here's a place to get supplies for less than West marine. Once you find a cheaper source for the supplies, it doesn't seem so bad to go the extra mile.


www.genuinedealz.com

www.delcity.net
10-24-2007 08:08 PM
sailaway21 Hartley,
No I have not, and at $12 per 9 feet I do not anticipate the pleasure occuring soon!
The reason I rec. Scotch 88 is that it is the best electrical tape I've found, it even works in the cold, and it is "reasonably priced" at about $5 per roll. Compared to hardware store tape at a buck a roll it is pricey but then, unlike the hardware store tape, it works!
10-24-2007 03:54 AM
Classic30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailaway21 View Post
In those areas where it is necessary to use electrical tape, I recommend Scotch 88, accept no substitutes. We used to use it for splicing wires to be immersed, until we switched to the convenience of shrink tubing. Splices covered with 88 last just as long as with shrink tube, it's truly a great tape that may change your opinion on electrical tapes. You may have to go to an electrical supply house to find it, although some hardware stores do carry it. That well-drilling supply house will have it.
Sway, have you ever tried "Rubbaweld" tape?? Like most of these products, they claim to do everything and generally can't..

I did buy a roll of the stuff a while back (it's around here somewhere), but find it is too easy to grab the nearest roll of ordinary electrical tape when there's a job to do.
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