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$3000/mo cruising budget

117K views 627 replies 88 participants last post by  colemj 
#1 ·
Determining a cruising budget and trying to find out if it will work seems like one of the most important parts of cruising, yet is one of the hardest to find any answers on. Before I got into sailing I spent 2 years researching the cost issues and in the end kind of just gave up and placed myself on a path to cruising anyway.

The question frequently becomes all jammed up with "it depends" and "it costs whatever you can afford to spend" answers. Which are true, but of little value for planning. Planning becomes even more important for those not so young when the decision to stop working and go cruising equals an end to a career and little chance of returning to work at anywhere near the level they were when they sailed off. The goal becomes balancing leaving while young enough to get the most of of cruising, while working long enough to not run out of money.

But I'm becoming more and more job burnt out and more and more caught in the dream, so find myself looking for the answer. To do it I spend lots of time reading though blogs looking for what people are spending and comparing it to what they are doing. I read things like the "Interview with a Cruiser Project", waste my time on the various forums, and just plain taking a guess based on what it costs me to live on land and maintain my boat now and have a budget in mind.

The budget I'm currently planning for is $3000/mo, which has to cover basically everything. Now this isn't a down and dirty budget, and it isn't a live high budget. But it is expected to be a comfortable budget that allows sightseeing and not eating out of a can budget. And as an average amount is one that I could cruise on till I no longer an able (that $3000/mo, $36,000/yr budget becomes $52,500 when I'm 75 at 2% inflation).

If you are in the cruise for $500/mo group this isn't a thread for you. But if you are in a similar position for cruising on $3000/mo I would love to see comments on what you expect this to mean far as your cruising plans.
 
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#323 ·
Panama answers:
We were there in 2010 so things may have changed. To be clear, there are two gets of costs: the Canal and the country.
Canal - You can check online to see the charges. What can really boost these are the extra things you can spend money on, like using an agent, hiring line handlers, lines and fenders. These can easily cost as much as what the canal charges. We did everything DIY and our total costs (including buying a cell phone and time) were about $15 beyond the canal fee.
They do measure your boat and if there is any way to get under 50 feet (counting everything that sticks out) it is well worth the effort. Our 45 footer measured 48.5 because of the anchor roller and Monitor vane (with the blade down for the measure; with it up it would have been more and very close to 50). We had friends with a 44' cat who removed their sprit. Removing davits would be a great idea if you are close.

- Country: It is not one charge, but they hit you for everything and at every opportunity. There are officials for immigration, health, port captains, biosecurity (I know I am missing some). After we did the canal we went to fuel up at the marina in Balboa and three more officials showed up. It was $30 for this and $75 for that. They all went out of their way to say how it could be more but they were being nice to you. I loved the Latin American countries we visited but the officials are a PITA.
 
#324 ·
so what was it for the boat and you and your crew?

back in 2000 it was about 150 for boat and another 100 per crew or so...

Im not talking canal...just entering panama

interested cause Im planning to go there again sometime this year
 
#325 ·
That was for boat and two of us. We entered in the San Blas and then went to Colon. Went back to the office in the San Blas to check out because you have to check in and out in each district. The port captain wrote something on our entry permit and signed an stamped it - no charge. When we got to Colon we were fined for not having the proper exit permit from San Blas. Turns out the fine was less than the cost of the exit permit (fine was $25 and permit was $30). Later on we got in trouble because we did not have 'mariners' visas'. No one when we checked in in the San Blas or in Colon mentioned this but it became a big issue in Balboa. Don't know if there is a way around this, but it just goes to show that not everyone gets the same treatment in the same ports at (almost) the same time.
 
#326 ·
well thats 100 percent true

we went up the pacific from perlas...simple enough back then, in fact pretty lax as I stayed with the boat even overtsayed my visa and crew left for the states and came back a year later...we left with same boat...

it was not expensive at the time and the canal all said and done after refund of deposit was around 800 for a 30 footer

heard that went way up a few years ago too

bummer
anywhoo
 
#327 ·
Our cost for the canal was not much more than that. The cost increase for >50' was huge; not so bad below.but still an increase.
 
#329 ·
This subject really is only tangentially about cruising. It's more about who a particular person is, and what their necessary lifestyle is. After reading so many of these posts, it really starts to dawn on you, that just as many people have very different opinions on what level lifestyle constitutes minimum, adequate, and luxurious on land, many people have very different opinions on what constitutes these lifestyles while cruising.

I again think about how I lived in college and when first starting out, on very little money, and then how I lived when more money became available. It's easy to get the (erroneous, in my opinion) idea that you have to have a certain level of increasing money to remain happy throughout life.

I really want to get back to the basics and what made me happy when I didn't have any money. I've taken a few cruise ship vacations, and there wasn't one single port we went to that I didn't wish I was on a sailboat, any sailboat, and anchored there, instead of cruising there in the lap of luxury.

My last cruising partner didn't see it that way, and we spent an obscene amount of money on marinas and air fare going back home to vistit, in the year we cruised that still pisses me off (we could have stayed twice or three times as long if we had spent more time on the hook, and less time flying back for unnecessary trips) My wife and I just flew to Key West a couple of months ago for a week, and I pointed out to her that for what it cost us in air fare and hotel rooms, we could have spent a couple of months there on our boat. She is like a lot of people. She wants to go, but is really scared for us to cut the lines and go, and comes up with one hurdle after another that must be jumped before we can go.

You either want the cruising lifestyle, or you don't. And, if you want it, you will find a way to make it work on the money you have. I think that has been proven over and over again by the people who have done it.
 
#332 ·
This is not a large enough sample size, but I've been cruising the Great Lakes for 44 days now. I've have two engine problems that have demanded mechanic help and dock time. I've spent some time visiting towns and restaurants, but mostly anchored and enjoyed the life. With all this, and considering that we're passing through some of the most expensive cruising zones, I can't imagine how I would spend $3000 per month. I think $1200 is pushing it.


Why go fast, when you can go slow
 
#333 · (Edited)
thread killed again by a "low end" post, of course 44 days definitely isn't any real data to use as a benchmark

The real difference between the $1500/mo and the $3000/mo cruiser is that in the $3000/mo cruisers budget there isn't a bunch of "it depends","not counting", and "the budget doesn't include" items.
 
#334 · (Edited)
I don't think Mike was trying to be a "benchmark". He was just relating his experience concerning this thread. Between you and I there will always be people who will do just fine on 500 USD a month and others who will complain and cannot make do with 15,000. You met them, I met them, we all met them. What do you consider a proper "benchmark" anyway? It is all a matter of perspective and we all have different perspectives.

Jerry
 
#335 ·
jerryrlitton;2127993 What do you consider a proper "benchmark" anyway?[/QUOTE said:
A couple of years worth of itemized expenses while cruising, with no money left out for "it depends", "budget doesn't include x".

The lowest once I have ever come across that meets this benchmark ended up around $1500/mo.

PS - I bet age is a factor, I bet there are less older low end cruisers. You can find lots of camping on a boat stories from people when they were in their 20s.
 
#336 ·
So Don0190, what keeps you from getting out and cruising on your 3000 a month? Your miserable in your job? Go. I don't think the 3000 will be enough for you anyway. Maybe time to walk the talk.? Plenty of folks doing it on all kinds of budgets.
 
#339 ·
The why, because I don't have enough saved yet to make the money last! Especially if I expect my wife to agree to come along along, which unlike many I do because her thoughts and wishes count with me

The rest of your post was just useless trash talk that contributed nothing to the subject other than to be insulting, but thanks.
 
#337 · (Edited)
I think both of these threads are saying pretty much the same thing. There is no magic amount of monthly income to cover all of the variables. (But of course some amounts are more magic than others) I think most of the examples of both of the threads are gentle kicks in the butt to individuals who are waiting for some magic number to aspire to, now they can tell themselves "now, I reached it, now I may go". A little shot of confidence if you will. I can relate to that. As you know I am in Nigeria, not exactly a garden spot however I can see retirement right around the corner. I want it to come. I am done. It is there, attainable but some of us are doing the howmuchwillineedtocoverthebases dance. Just a touch nervous. But if we can see him doing it (retire) her doing it, that may be all of the kick in the butt we need. I figure June of 15 I will be done with contract flying. I will be 57, nobody knows how many breaths we have left. I will keep you posted. Phuket, Krabbi, Ko Jun here I come....in the meantime a cup of coffee and time to go flying.
Jerry
 
#338 ·
A cruising budget is easy to establish.

It's $300 in January - still got lots of stuff left after Xmas
It's $55 in February, that's how much fuel it took for the month's sailing to and around that island group.
It's $3000 in March - the supermarkets and diesel are really inexpensive here so we've stocked up on all our supplies.
It's $0 in April - see March above.
It's $350 in May - see March above and wife's birthday with a dinner on the town + gift.
It's $3800 in June - the genoa started falling apart, needed replacing
July, August, September - $0 - spent the time lazing around the Tuamotus fishing, diving, swimming, reading, baking, a little fixing, doing the things that cruisers do.

Oh, you're looking for an average? Sorry, can't help you there.:)
 
#341 ·
A cruising budget is easy to establish.

It's $3000 in March - the supermarkets and diesel are really inexpensive here so we've stocked up on all our supplies.
It's $0 in April - see March above.
So in April you just anchored and either sat on the boat or dinghied in and walked around, and you only ate or drank what you had bought the month before? No meals out, movies, bought a book, paid for internet, did any landry ashore, went to a museum, or anything.

Sounds fun :rolleyes: Then you repeated for July, August, and Sept.
 
#343 ·
Don, you are continually putting down the experience of people who are actually doing what you say you want to do. Has it occurred to you that there are places where it is impossible (or nearly so) to actually spend money? There are no restaurants, movie theatres, book stores (and if there are, the books won't be in English - you use free book exchanges or load up an iPad before you go), there is no Internet, you do your own laundry rather than hiring a local woman to wash it by bashing it on a rock, there are no museums - basically there is no anything that requires money. Then you go somewhere else where you cannot avoid spending a lot.

Couple of examples. We spent several weeks in Suvarov in the Cook Islands. The only money you can spent there is the entry fee to the country ($50?). If you were coming from another island in the country you could not spend a penny. Add on the passage to and from Suvarov, (no museums and movie theatres in the middle of the Pacific) and you spend zippo for most of a couple of months. When you arrive in South Africa you have no choice but to spend money on marinas - there are no anchorages at all along the eastern part of the country. Food, wine and beer are all cheap, both for eating out and provisioning. You want to go see lions and elephants - for us it was a two week trip with car rental, hotels, etc. It was relatively cheap and terrific touring, but it still adds up.

What do you drink? Are you flexible? In some places you drink rum because it is cheap. In other places wine is the bargain beverage, while in others it is beer. If you insist on your favourite Scotch you will be shocked at how expensive it will be in some places (if you can get it at all). French Polynesia and Australia come to mind. If you are paying $80 a fifth for hooch that would be less than $20 in the US it can add up pretty quick. We found it made more sense to drink the $2 a litre Chilean wines and $8 a litre excellent rum we stocked up on in Panama, where we spent $1200 at the local version of Costco one day. The rum went really well with the limes we bought in Ecudador 70 for $1.

I haven't cruised the coast of Spain, France, and Italy in the Med, but I hear it is incredibly expensive. Almost no anchorages and marinas that are over $100 a night. Great food and great restaurants, but not cheap.

You tell me where you want to cruise, what kind of boat (size and complexity), and what your lifestyle is and I can make a broad guess as to the cost. Without that kind of information it is useless to say that you can do it on $500 a month, $3000 a month or any other amount.
 
#340 ·
All can relate is my actual experience Don, not some third-party, read it off the internet, wisdom. You keep asking the same question, and getting the same answer: it costs what you spend. You can budget all you like in your nice safe armchair, but you need to get out and live the life for a while to know what YOU need. I know I can spend very little by staying away from urban money traps, but for some people, visiting urban money traps is the whole point of them going cruising. To each his own I say.

If you're a marina hopper, or your boat cannot manage to be away from shore amenities for a long time, then you will spend more. If you can stock cheaply and in bulk, and live on the hook most of the time, then you will spend much less.

The lesson in all these threads is that there is no one TRUTH about financing. Only you can answer that question grasshopper. Now, get off your duff and go!


Why go fast, when you can go slow
 
#342 ·
. You keep asking the same question, and getting the same answer: it costs what you spend.
Of course it costs what you spend. What a helpful budgeting statement. :puke

I wonder what is going to work out better for a cruiser: spending $2000/mo when they had a $3000/mo budget, or spending $1000/mo when they had budgeted $500/mo.

BTW - when I say "cruising" budget I mean "living" budget. It has to cover everything!
 
#346 ·
One thing Killarney says that strikes home is expense depends on locale. Over this summer have wandered around North east U.S. A major expense has been moorings when either no anchorage or no room in anchorage. Often have no choice- either pay for mooring or turn around and head out again which may be unsafe as both wife/myself are sleep deprived from sail getting to new harbor. So far have been able to avoid slips but this has required not going certain places where only slips are available. Other highly variable expense has been fuel. If no wind engine is on. If no wind or sun generator needs to be run even when on anchor. Image this will continue to vary after beginning of November and we head for BVI.
Good, cheap food seems to require local knowledge and often a cab ride. Have taken to looking at sterns and noting homeport boats. If anyone in cockpit dinghy over and politely ask they share knowledge.
 
#347 ·
Of course Killarney is quite right. But also, of course, OF COURSE the internet takes over a forum thread and the only person who doesnt realise it is the person most interested.

This thread would be attended to lots of people in that budget range of the subject box if they were allowed to. But they are not. One must learn and understand the internet and how it works.

You can't talk budget on this forum unless you are talking low budget. Thats why the $500 per month threads, and ridiculous as they are, work.

I was reading a trawler for big expensive motor boats and it was exaclty the same. Everyone deriding anyone who has a better budget than the bare minimum. Even the typical political slagging off saying anyone who spends more that the most miserly budget is some fascist. Except the most miserly budget there was $60,000 per year :D

A few have the guts to toss their expenses sheets out for all to critisize... and the interesting thing is that all the budgets are quite close no matter if you have a living off the hook budget or cruise around in sailing style or the superyacht/trawler budget.

You can only eat so much and, yes, thats often regulated by your location.

The budget variations come from free food (caught, and very few boats catch more than a meal a week), supermarkets, how much food boght before their cruise.
Then theirs maintenance and what needs to be put aside for the 3rd, 5th and 12th years maintenance. If you include maintenance for a full decade it will be different to one year. Sorry, but thats true. Obviously it depends on your boat too.

Now, then theres the variables in budgets and this is what changes a low budget to a higher one:
Restaurants
Travel home
Insurances
Marinas
Travel off the boat.

And they are mostly discretionary.

if you are from the USA and fly home from the Caribbean is costs tuppence compared to flying home from Suvarov in the Cook Islands. So most don't till they can afford the flight.

One friends boat was on the exact same pittance of a budget as mine except for an extra $10,000 per year because he could not be in any port in the world without a rent a car every day! Why the hell do you need a rent a car EVERY day????????? But for he and his wife they liked making sandwitches on board and taking them on their daily trips.
If I had that extra money I would still go by bus, but I would be drunk 24/7!

If I did have some serious dollars to spend my own luxury would be to hire a helicopter in each country. I love the way you see terrain by helicopter.

So everyone's budget is basically the same its only our parameters individually that differ. But these threads will not allow discussion of those parameters and thats very sad.


Mark
 
#362 ·
So everyone's budget is basically the same its only our parameters individually that differ. But these threads will not allow discussion of those parameters and thats very sad.
Are you sure you weren't drunk when you wrote this Mark ;-)

Actually, if I follow your long ramble, I agree. Outside of food costs, most expenditures will be driven by individual parameters, or as I and others have often put it, wants vs needs. It all comes down to choices -- and the consequences that follow from those choices.

If you must have a big, expensive boat then the consequences are higher capital and maintenance costs. Dockage, equipment, insurance etc all go up exponentially. This is why I appreciate the concept of going with the smallest boat you can live with. For some, that is a 55 foot cat, for others it is a 27 foot mono. If that's what your parameters are (your nee)d, then fine. Consequences will follow.

I'm happy to discuss these parameters Mark. Not sure why you think we can't. But I gotta sail now. We're leaving our plush marina now. Hopefully on the hook tonight, or perhaps an overnight sail to somewhere east.

Why go fast, when you can go slow
 
#350 ·
good reason to be in the Caribbean since good rum is less expensive than "other" stuff

See I think of ways to cut the budget ;)
 
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#351 · (Edited)
Spent a good part of today shopping insurance. Boat/ health/ liability etc. Here I think there is a clear cut difference.
Budget- own inexpensive boat and loses will be low so can self insure.
Retired or families or full time lives boards may have a substantial investment in boat with losses meaning the dream is gone for ever so are more likely insure.
Stinking rich- once again other than liability can afford to self insure. Also more likely to have boat inside a corporate shell with loses a write off.
Once again the working stiff meeting his obligations or having saved his pennies takes the shaft.
P.S.- can get great rum cheap in Plymouth MA - Dirty Water Distilleries "What Knot"
 
#355 ·
..Budget- own inexpensive boat and loses will be low so can self insure.
It's all relative to your net worth. Both a $50k and a $500k boat can be too much for any given person to lose.

Retired or families or full time lives boards may have a substantial investment in boat with losses meaning the dream is gone for ever so are more likely insure.
I know a few liveaboards of various means. I do not believe any can actually take the financial hit of losing their only home. Although, to my dismay, some seem to take that chance. I've heard it rationalized and I just shake my head.

Stinking rich- once again other than liability can afford to self insure. Also more likely to have boat inside a corporate shell with loses a write off.
Once again the working stiff meeting his obligations or having saved his pennies takes the shaft.
I don't know where stinking rich starts. I think I'm doing pretty well and can not afford to lose the investment in my boat, not even while still working.

Of course, I was coincidentally anchored among the New York Yacht Club cruise in Edgartown a few weeks ago. Most of their boats could have carried ours as a dinghy. Being more serious, I would say the smallest sailboat was 80 ft, up to 120ft. Stinkpotters were 120ft up to 250 ft. Several stinkpotters had their 45ft racing sailboat tied up along side their megayacht. They must be the stinking rich and I will bet you they all have insurance.
 
#358 ·
I've read all of this thread and the $500/month thread with interest. Although we don't have the big boat yet and we're not heading out for another ten years, I already know that we will fall somewhere in between the two amounts. Just setting money aside for the inevitable maintenance/repairs, health expenses, and boat insurance will push us over $500/month.

I am a firm believer that in general people will spend something similar to what they spend on land, less land-based only costs (i.e. mortgage, car, etc.). I also strongly believe that people can spend a lot less on land than they realize, and still be happy - maybe even happier. My assistant is getting ready to retire and she and her husband's annual retirement income will be over double what ours will be (because she's retiring at 65 vs. my retiring at 55). Yet she still frets over having enough and looks at me like I'm going to be in the poorhouse. Me? I'm not concerned because I know it will be enough. The difference? The things that they value and are spending money on vs. what we value and spend our money on. That's not to say her way is wrong. I used to be more like her when it comes to money and spending. But over the past few years I've realized that I can live with substantially fewer amenities than she can, and I'm more content than I've ever been.

Frankly, I don't think there's any reason why a couple can't cruise on $3,000/month with money to spare, UNLESS they need the items that push them over that amount. In some cases it may be truly needed. But someone who still has many years before they cast off the lines might try simplifying now to see how it feels. They may discover that they don't need as much as they thought.
 
#360 ·
A cruising budget is a very different thing from a long term retirement liveaboard budget. While most cruisers will return to shore, almost all retired people do. That is, those that live to a nice ripe age. You also need the budget to get back on land and selling one's boat will almost never fund your final years ashore. If the premise is true that it is cheaper to liveaboard than ashore, that's a tough thing to plan for. All the talk of cheap foreign medical care is well and good when you break an arm or need sutures. I dare say that long term geriatric care ashore in a country you don't live in would be a different story.
 
#364 ·
A cruising budget is a very different thing from a long term retirement liveaboard budget.
Of course for those of us not so young the cruising budget is a living budget and a part of the long term retirement plan.
 
#365 ·
Minnie- I have full insurance . Can't afford to not have it. You are right but know several folks going bare. Been away cruising. One stop was sag harbor. We were the smallest boat in the anchorage. Our boat could be the dinghy for some of the sailboats in there let alone the wedding cake boats. Passed on the $31 hamburger offered in town and ate buffalo burgers on the grill. Yum. That $31 hamburger costs the same regardless of what boat you're on.
Still when the boat is a corporate asset and used to "entertain" clients the calculus is different for insurance. Last summer got friendly with a French couple. They have three kids.one borne on the boat. To my knowledge they just have liability insurance. Boat is sole asset. Would note even in our limited travels we have been asked for proof of liability insurance. Think that will increase as time goes by.
Being in a transition period so far find personal expenses less on the boat. Entertainment,clothes, food etc. are less. Obviously don't drive when on boat but fuel costs higher. Think differences between small ( <40') and moderate (40-50') may be somewhat overstated as actual living( food, drink, clothes, water, health insurance, flights etc.)
expenses the same.
 
#370 ·
I wasn't trying to make a distinction between a cruising budget and a retirement liveaboard budget. For us, retirement will mean full time cruising but we'll return to land when we're ready, not because we've run out of money. At the risk of stating the obvious, if a person can be in a position where their cruising budget comes from steady sources of income (e.g. a pension, earnings from investments) and they don't touch the principal, then it's not necessary to rely on the funds from selling the boat.

All I was trying to say was that if people are willing to look outside the box, they may find that they don't need as much money as they thought to go cruising.
 
#372 ·
I wasn't trying to make a distinction between a cruising budget and a retirement liveaboard budget. For us, retirement will mean full time cruising but we'll return to land when we're ready, not because we've run out of money. At the risk of stating the obvious, if a person can be in a position where their cruising budget comes from steady sources of income (e.g. a pension, earnings from investments) and they don't touch the principal, then it's not necessary to rely on the funds from selling the boat.

All I was trying to say was that if people are willing to look outside the box, they may find that they don't need as much money as they thought to go cruising.
I agree with your point, but was trying to add a distinction that I thought was relevant to the current query. When you return to shore, you'll need somewhere to live. If you rent, you'll need that increase in cash flow to cover it. Maybe its an offset to one's boat costs, but that depends. If you buy a house or condo, you'll need that capital. For most, its pretty unlikely that the boat value is a swap. Finally, your medical or long term nursing care needs will need to be met as well, understanding a reasonable number of cruisers that go without medical insurance in younger years.

If one is cruising for a few years in their 40s or 50s with the understanding they will return to work, this is less relevant. If one's plan is to spend every moment until they can no longer be aboard, it's very relevant.
 
#375 ·
was a lot more useful thread before it turned to just really be bashing

just where would internet forums be without bashers looking for a "cause" :rolleyes:
 
#379 ·
I'm back to looking at the budget with a planned leave target being Sept 2015. I'm still figuring $3k/mo on average spending budget to cover everything.

It is looking that on Sept 2015 we will have $442k in cash and 401ks. In 2022 & 2023 we each could start collecting about $1300/mo in social security. Had the financial advisor run the projections and he said it all works (was surprised a financial advisor would even say that).
 
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