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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-10-2001 09:03 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

I''m looking at a used HC 33T and would like input from other owners on how they cruise. This boat was owned by a couple who are very experienced and the boat has great equipment and kept up well. It''s a 1984. What should I look for mostly on this model as far as significant expense from age? Thanks
03-27-2001 12:47 PM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

I''d love to join you for a factory tour... in the off-season, I''m going in the water soon and must do the chores before having fun. Was the "high lift" you refered to, a travel lift? Because that is what was required to get the boat back on dry land to fix the design fault of the rudder on the winged keel boat I spoke of. I see it in my (not the owner) boat yard all the time, the Cats that have wing-dings have rudders hanging below the bottom of the keel. Many accidents waiting for the first opportunity to happen. Concerning the point about fiberglass pans, as far as I''m concerned, pans on a sailboat should only be found in the galley! Thats my story and I''m sticking to it dude!
03-27-2001 06:10 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

Let me add to my previous posting that our Grampian is a 1968 and our main concern with the 4ft deep keel is with our type of cruising in the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean (Bahama''s, Virgin Islands...). Is that the wrong keel in those areas and how sea worthy are the Grampians? As I stated we are doing some modifications.

03-27-2001 05:37 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

Hi! Hope you don''t mind if I''m a little late on this subject but my husband and I are planning on cruising in the Bahama''s on our 26ft Gampian which has a 4ft keel! Also the rutter is not attached to the keel. We are doing some moderations on her to make it more ocean worthy to live aboard and live out our dream of cruising. ANY advice is much welcomed. We have gone back and forth about this keel and still have not come to a decision on what is best for the type of cruising we want to do. Mainly in the tropics where it''s warm!

03-26-2001 06:37 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

Your comments about Catalinas being pan boats is very misleading. If you would like to join me for a tour of the Catalina plant in Largo, I''d be glad to show you the structrual grid component used in between the hull and inner liner. This is , by far the, difference between Hunter/Beneteau. Why do Catalina owner''s consistintly move up through the product line,30''s 34''s, 38''s.
I would invite comparison for value with any other manufacturer.
Do you have a problem with Yanmar/Universal engines? Charleston spar? Lewmar, Raytheon, Edson,Garhauer, Bomar, Maxwell, Aquasignal,Schaeffer furling. Where did they cut corners with second rate hardware? As far as accessability check out any new boat. Dare to compare.
I like the wing keels although, if not careful rudder damage could occur. ( A problem with any high lift eliptical spade rudder)
02-11-2001 04:34 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

A quick comment on Marelon throughulls. I have a 15 year old boat that lives in the water and gets sailed year round. It now has all Marelon through hulls and seacocks. When I bought the boat it had one bronze seacock. I still have all of the Marelon Seacocks and they all work and they have not required any maintenance. The bronze seacock, dispite a lot of maintenance (twice a year lubing, and once every other year disassembly and relapping) leaked on and oof for the whole time it was in the boat and so I replaced it with a Marelon through-hull and seacock.

I am not sure what I would do about through hulls if I was going offshore, but I know that I would not replace a Marelon through-hull and seacock just because it was Marelon.

02-10-2001 02:09 PM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

Just remember that those deep draft either end up at a dock or anchoring way out there. Smaller boats. shorter rows, less need for electrical thinamajigs
02-10-2001 05:46 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

While these coversations are very polite they are getting a little dreamy. Money is the major factor and if the price of a particular suitable boat is lower the demand will be there. Only a few people can afford luxury items and these may be more trouble than they are worth.

I still argue that the statement "you never know what will break" applies more to new boats than used boats.

Recently someone on the CWBB expressed an interest in a liveaboard sailboat under $40K and 34'' to 38'' loa. After a discussion the buyer seems to have settled on a Tartan 37 CB (shoal draft is a requirement here). The point of this is that the prices of T 37''s seems to have gone thru the roof! They used to be $45 K now they are $60K. This like the Sabre 34 mentioned I feel there is a sea change in the SIZE of starter boats.

Long ago we used to think our former boat, a C&C 30, was a neat little pocket yacht if you would. It certainly cost us a lot nearly new. Now we see oviously new sailors on new H 37X''s (whatever the #''s are).

We are used to having ice most of the time on our 35'' sloop, running a couple of lights at night and then retiring to bed. The most amps we use daily is in the 9-14 AH range. We eat well when coastal cruising and our food is fresh. But now generators seem to be running all evening in the anchorage.

To each his own but boats like SUV''s seem to be getting bigger all of the time with the 30'' group of sailboats left to drop in value while the bigger boats are in demand.

This reflects on the keel designs as bigger boats have deeper draft.

02-10-2001 04:51 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

whoops... let me also hasten to add:

I also think there are good reasons for buying new. I can see Mr. Smith''s reasons for buying new: the dealer deals with any hassels, you get the nicest interiors and some very nice new features. Also that on an older boat, you never know what is going to break. I enjoy working on boats. If I were in Mr. Smith''s shoes, I might want to just enjoy the boat. :O)
02-10-2001 03:41 AM
Best Keel for Coastal and Blue Water Cruising

I also agree with your statements, BUT I think that we are dealing with a historical anomoly that may not be repeated. I also think some people might argue with a couple boats on your list, but thats OK.

Historically, the boat industry has been through a couple of depressions and periods of hyperinflation during the past 20 yrs. It is that, in my opinion, that has led to the situation we have now where many of those boats like Hinckley''s have asking prices higher than when they were new. I am not sure that is a rule to follow for the future, but you are right in that it does indicate which are the better boats.

But again, everything has a cost. A used Alden may be 2-3 times the cost of a new C or B (I don''t think many people would lump those in with H, though they would with C&C... no slight against C&C''s). I personally think that is too much money given how many people have sailed such long distances in C''s & B''s. There is no question that if someone were to give me a boat, I would take a Passport, Valiant, Hylas or Shannon over any other boat. I might even buy a used one over a new C or B, given the same size for an equivalent price. But I am not sure you could even find one less than 20 yrs old for the same price you would pay for a new C or B.

I am not trying to be argumenative, I am very much enjoying this discussion and everyone''s comments. My point is that, I think the boat industry is at the point where the values of much older boats may plummet as people begin to reject the old "yacht 101" interior''s in favor of newer more comfortable designs and builders, like C build boats that are right on the very fine edge of being good safe boats built in the least expensive manner. I think that compels people like the gentleman who started this thread to consider new.

As for the future value of a boat. Much as I love those older boats, I think that in 10 yrs, a new C will be worth more than a 20 yo classic bought at the same price. Not much of a market for old boats. The reason we are seeing some 15-20 yo boats at high prices today is that they are right at their value break point, in my opinion. Except for the true classics like Alden and Hinckley.

Not sure where that leaves us but sure am having fun. Would rather be sailing, but the next best thing is chatting with good sailors about boats. And I am struggling with this very point: what age boat to get. After much thought, I am looking at boats that are 10-12 yrs old.

My best to all. Sorry to be so long winded.
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