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Poo isn't so bad, is it?

19K views 143 replies 48 participants last post by  neoxaero 
#1 ·
For the first time I've had to look for a pump-out for my holding tank, and start making inquiries. Despite the size and business of Victoria's port, there are only two pump outs, both private, one not working, and until today, the other wasn't working either. Cost? $20.00. The resulting effluent will then be run through Victoria's sewers, and then dumped untreated in the Jaun deFuca Straight.

I live in a liveaboard marina where there are no sewage hookups, and many boats never leave their slips. There are other marinas in the harbour that also have no sewage hookup and have liveaboards.

The regs clearly stipulate that no blackwater is to be discharged into the harbour, and yet there is no policing, no enforcement, and it will cost you to discharge legally, if you can find a pumpout that works.

Up to now I've discharged more or less legally into deep major bodies like Haro Straight and Juan deFuca, but now that I see that the regs are being ignored, are not enforced, little is done by authorities to actually make the system work (working public pumpouts) the city pumps effluent untreated, and the harbour itself is already listed as a federal toxic waste site after 100 years of industrial contamination, I'm thinking it's all a joke and the poo should go over the side along with everyone else's, to mix with the brew of PCB's, dioxins, heavy metals and whatever else is out there.

Can somebody make an argument that this would be wrong?
 
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#111 · (Edited)
Got one. It's coming out of our new-to-us boat in September. Anyone who's picked up this thread can PM me if interested, otherwise it will go up on various for sale lists when it gets replaced by the Lavac-with-holding-tank.

STILL untreated by the city? What is their problem?!
 
#4 ·
Victoria is a disgrace.

It's wrong because you asked the question.

Sail out to pump out beyond three miles, or whatever the local limit is. The fact that others **** where they float doesn't make it right. That kind of logic went out with "I was only following orders". Don't add to the mess that makes the approaches to Victoria "following ordure".

Besides, I think you are the type of guy who needs fresh sea air to clear his head (pun intended) once in a while.
 
#5 ·
Thank you Val, well said. We in the Great Lakes, both Canada and the US, take this seriously. No three mile limits here. Wire it shut or get the fines.

In the US we are easy on murder, but if you dump your **** in the Great Lakes and get caught, you will wish you were dead.
 
#6 ·
I understand your frustration Hoffa; but "everybody else is doing it" doesn't even work for my 6yr old grandson......

Be the best guy in the harbor !
 
#7 ·
Hoffa,

For those of us who go to very considerable expense and inconvenience to comply with the no-discharge requirement, it's discouraging to hear about a place like Victoria.

In my book, direct discharge into the harbour waters is no different than throwing trash overboard, or out your car window for that matter. Maybe by way of example, you can pursuade your marina neighbors to adopt less vile habits.
 
#8 ·
I'd have to agree with the others... don't dump in the harbor.
 
#9 ·
Funny...but in the Caribe you can dump wherever you want and the water is pristine everywhere except in small enclosed harbors without tidal flow. I won't advise not to follow the law...but i believe the law is a sledgehammer where only a tack hammer should be needed. You got pods of Orcas taking dumps night and day in the Straights of Juan de Fuca with no ill effect...but you wouldn't want that in Lake Tahoe. Then they outlaw MSD's that process waste CLEANER than the municiple waste water regulations...and you can't find a working dump station within 10 miles....then you pay for the privilege of using it as it returns your waste to the municipal system and empties it back into the bay!! DUH!!!
 
#10 ·
I see that some folks feel quite strongly about this. Is that because in the US they actually take it seriously and so the ethic has been adopted? There was a time when drinking and driving wasn't such a social taboo, either. Is it because if I pay, you should pay too?

I'm not exactly enamored with the quality of the harbor's water either, but while the idea of floating turds IS repugnant, I am a lot more concerned about the toxic buildup in the sediments from industry. That's the stuff that gives you seals with two heads. Not to mention people.

Not surprisingly the harbor authority recently announced "troubling" levels of E. coli in the water, but from what I understand from my microbiologist bro, in most cases it's harmless, but it's a MARKER for fecal contamination, which gets the health authorities scared fast. In fresh water it can lead to all kinds of plagues and stuff, but saltwater? What is the worry other than we don't like floating in sewers?

The thing about most ethics and morals, they only work if a good, solid segment of society also follow them. If you're the only guy adhering to a value, and paying all the consequences while everyone else ignores it and reaps the reward, you might feel good about yourself, and you might even be a model fellow, but you also just might be an twit.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I am a lot more concerned about the toxic buildup in the sediments from industry. That's the stuff that gives you seals with two heads. Not to mention people.
I'll agree with ya on the two heade seals, but are you sure it gives us people too.

I could go out 3 miles and dump, but I really hate sh*t in my pool, so I have a service come by twice a week @ 45.00 a pump to take of business

It's a lot of moola, but it is the right thing to do IMHO
 
#11 ·
Unfortunately, government doesn't make much sense about a lot of things.
 
#12 ·
For the first time I've had to look for a pump-out for my holding tank, and start making inquiries. Despite the size and business of Victoria's port, there are only two pump outs, both private, one not working, and until today, the other wasn't working either. Cost? $20.00.
Is there no boat-to-boat pumpout service in Victoria? The going rate here in the Bay Area is $25.00 for a pumpout and you don't even have to be at the boat.
 
#14 ·
When we were first looking at our current boat, I found a switch tucked in a cabinet. I asked the owner about the switch. She said "oh, that's to the Canada pump." I hadn't heard that term before so I asked her what a "Canada Pump" is. She said "you know, it's for when you go cruising in Canada and you have to pump overboard".

On our way up to Desolation Sound each summer, we hit the pump out at Nanaimo on the way up and tried for the one at Lund, but it's usually blocked in by rafted boats. Sure would like to see one up at Refuge Cove or Squirrel Cove.
 
#15 ·
I can't believe this question? It's all about morals and being able to sleep at night. If anybody in my harbour would dump overboard, I would probably take a knife to his sails. This is absolutely disgusting, you are endangering the waters and peoples lives. If you don't have a proper pump-out station, find another solution. Sick!
 
#17 ·
Instead of getting riled, why not actually answer the question(s)? So far all I'm getting is it's an aesthetic issue rather than a moral one. How is it endangering the waters and people's lives? I believe cholera is spread by fecal contaminated drinking water, but we're talking salt water here. I've yet to see dead marine life washed up on the shore because of poo...

I'm seriously not being inflammatory; there was a lot of noise about getting these regs pushed through, but I still haven't heard any reason why, other than people are disgusted and don't eat the shellfish.

It's an unfortunate truth that all societies and civilisations wallow in their own filth (been to a dump lately?). Again, there's no hurry in cleaning up the toxic waste in the harbour, and as an environmental disaster, I would bet my left gonad that junk has a far greater impact on ecosystem health.

My understanding of the impact of human waste is it's a fertilizer and leads to excess phytoplankton growth and reduced O2 levels.
 
#18 ·
Hoffa - I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand much on the effect of salt water and crap in a harbour. All I know is that if I'm swimming and a piece of **** floats near me.....I will freak!

As far as diseases, Hep B is causes by fecals I believe.

You mention dumps....when you go to a dump you know what to expect. When I go swimming I'm expecting crap free water. I don't consider urine a pollutant though, as it's mostly water.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Hoffa,
If you're searching for some justification for dumping your solid wastes into the planet's coastal water systems and oceans, you will be hard-pressed to get it here, or even receive it from anyone with any level of intelligence.

Without getting into a long winded debate over this - since I don't have the time right now, there are many levels of harm this will do to the environment - aside from the very well known, harmful effects of fecal coliform bacteria.

Excessive nutrient loading is a huge problem with Bays and estuaries worldwide, with some very devastating effects. Dissolved oxygen levels are reduced by decomposition of macroalgae blooms fueled by excess nutrients. Low dissolved oxygen affects the survival and growth of most marine animals.

There are so many other devastating effects to the environment caused from the discharge of your boat's fecal matter - but again, I don't have the time to debate this. I do urge you to please study the thousands of reports with scientific research that mandated these laws.

Besides, the mere fact that you're actually posting such a ridiculous argument, is either proof of your ignorance of this topic or testimony to your sheer stupidity. If the latter is true, then there's no point in me even debating this.
 
#21 ·
TB, don't hold back, please tell us how you really feel.
:D

Oh, and just FYI, it's fecal coliform, but I know you were busy and in a hurry.
Hoffa,
fecal chloroform bacteria.
I agree with you to a very large extent; but probably mostly in areas with semi-limited flow, like any harbor or cove and most estuaries; even big places like the Chesapeake.

Less so in distinctly open water, like 3 or 4 miles into the Gulf of Maine; at least in the levels we're talking about here.
 
#24 ·
NP, TB :) Sorry to hear you're in a $#!ttY mood, Pun definitely intended :D

I do understand the frustration Hoffa expressed in his original post. It's hard to pony up with glee when we see others around us flaunting then rules with impunity.

As for the correction, I just thought it was funny chloroform/coliform. Done in by the old spell-checker .... ;)

Hope your day gets better,
Fred
 
#26 ·
Has anyone seen what it looks like when you flush overboard?

Well from my point of view,(a diver) it looks like it is snowing during a duststorm...
There is nothing that floats so no reason to worry anout bumping in to a "baby ruth" while swimming.

Its a great way to attract fish but please don't flush/pumpout while I'm in the water!!!!
 
#27 ·
but please don't flush/pumpout while I'm in the water!!!!
Again it comes down to personal responsibility and common sense. Laws be damned, nobody should be pumping out in any body of water where a diver or a swimmer would want to be, let alone where they are.
 
#28 ·
We on San Juan Island live next door to Victoria/Vancouver Island, and it is an ongoing, irate source of "news" that they are dumping millions of gallons of raw sewer over there into the local waters. Other than Hoffalives, my take is that most of the population over there doesn't give a crap (sorry...), or they would do something about it. Since most people tend to ignore it and look the other way, it ain't gonna change any time soon.

Hoffa, as far as your personal moral conundrum, I once lived in a marina outside of Portland, OR (on the slow moving Multnomah Channel) where the marina manager literally told us to "do what everyone else does" and pump right into the water. Which was against I don't know how many state and local regulations. Well, we wouldn't do it. We pumped out properly, and over time made a few of our neighbors feel guilty enough to alter their pump out practices for the better.

To me, the moral of the story is change is quite often made one person at a time. My default has always been to do what is right, even if it's a pain in the ass (sorry again!).
 
#29 ·
T B, despite the harshness of your words, and the stinky mood, I totally agree with you. What I don't understand is that Hoffalives said the city sewage system dumps untreated. It would seem to me that the provincial government and/or the Canadian government should force the city to stop that practice. In most of the U S that would happen.
BTW, Sea Monkey, the water around Manituolin Island is DRINKABLE, and since I intend to return there on Ragtime (I previously chartered there) I took out the macerator pump and installed a larger holding tank so I would not have to pump as often!
 
#33 ·
BTW, if the estrogen didn't shrivel it, I guess you owe me your left gonad??

Look for "pharmaceuticals and personal care products" on EPA's website, or try googling "intersex fish." Turns out that the estrogen has been turning little boy fish into little girl fish in the Potomac, maybe other places as well.
 
#35 · (Edited)
The girl fish? Or Hoffa's gonad?

I suppose its equally possible that the fish no longer have high cholesterol, or are happier than before, but how could you tell?

And cool! That's the second time this week I could claim to have been doing something work-related while on SailNet at the office!
 
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