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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Thoughts for those buying or selling...
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Thread: Thoughts for those buying or selling... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-20-2007 09:44 AM
xort A really bad local economy means people start shortcutting on maintenance.
I'm in the Detroit market & I got 15% over estimated value. But it was in very good cosmetic condition.
12-20-2007 09:22 AM
121Guy Midlife,

It is always interesting determining fair value for a large item, be it a boat, house, car, land etc. All one can really do is rely on expert opinion and past history of sales. Who is an expert? Not the listing price broker. Not the asking price owner. Not an emotional buyer. In my way of thinking, the Boat US program makes lots of sense as they do not play on only one side of the transaction. If you want to sell, you can call them. If you want to buy, you can call them. If you do use them, an interesting point is that, I believe, they will not insure for more than they estimate.

For a large selection of all types of boats, I'd look hard at the Detroit market area. Combination of fresh water, short seasons and really bad local economy have created a very good buyers market. You will have to beat away all the Canadians though.

Good luck!
12-20-2007 08:47 AM
PalmettoSailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by 121Guy View Post
Those buying or selling might want to consider the Boat US Valuation Services as another data point. Members can get free evaluations by filling out a short form on the boatus.com website. I believe they use sold data as well as survey data from all their insurance records. Kinda cool! Good luck.
I've done that for the boats I'm interested in, and in my case, I found all of the boats were above the BoatUS valuations by signficant margins, but the newest boats were over by smaller percentages. If the BoatUS values are any good, it seems boats depreciate faster than owners are willing to acknowledge, especially as they reach 10-15 years old. Asking prices for the mid 90's boats were 30% or more high, while the late 90's and '00 boats were only about 10-15% over the Boat US values.

I haven't personally looked at all of these boats, but the ones I have looked at could not be considered much above average (and some would take wads of cash to make average). Personally, I'd be willing to pay a premium on a 10 y.o. boat for things like newer sails, replaced standing/running rigging, etc.. Stuff like 10 y.o. chartplotters, dodgers, biminis, and air conditioners have seen a lot of use, and in my mind should not command a huge premium.
12-19-2007 04:03 PM
121Guy
Another Resource

Those buying or selling might want to consider the Boat US Valuation Services as another data point. Members can get free evaluations by filling out a short form on the boatus.com website. I believe they use sold data as well as survey data from all their insurance records. Kinda cool! Good luck.
12-19-2007 08:43 AM
Cruisingdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha_V View Post
And at any time when dealing in boats, you also have to wade through the boats for sale that are not *really* for sale.
The husband promises his wife that he will sell the boat and settle....and that boat has worn five for sale signs until they have yellowed and cracked off....
The boat is for sale, but he is going to make sure you have to pry it from his cold dead fingers.

There are the people that do not see their boat as a mere asset but as an emotional expression of the love and inspiration that the universe can offer to the lucky sailor that is worthy of their craft (Mind the splinters, and try not to stand on that patch of deck over there, we don't think you'll fall all the way through, but...).

In short, far more then with cars or houses, even classic cars, you have to wade through the "Yes, but not really" items that muddy the waters of both buying a boat and being able to make reasonable comparissons and price charts.

Sasha
No doubt, Sasha, that would be me. I agree with you. Isn't a boat one of those things that feels like it is a part of you??? It is to me (BBQ Grill and all!!)

- CD
12-19-2007 12:11 AM
Gryzio
Yes, this about were I stand!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
My opinion on this is such:
get the boat that the owner has been "anal" and passionate about... and pay more for it. That is my "recent buyer" advice and my opinion.
Did that make sense??- CD
Your answering, similar to what I was thinking. But, reassurance helps.
Two of the boats I eye seem to have been very well maintained and proper maintenance over the years was done with papers to back it up (Which I will verify to the best ability I can). I may not try to get too ignorant as to offer much less than they asking as the boats (To myself) seem to be well worth the asking price.
I just thought it never hurt to ask opinions. Was actually glad to see a reply, Thanks!
I still keep watching this thread as it a good converse of present conditions and I enjoy reading the opinions, not only to boats, but, a few other little tidbits.
12-18-2007 11:20 PM
Cruisingdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryzio View Post
Very true statement. Sometimes sentiment value is unattainable. I answered a question earlier about Sailing Simulators. I explained how I started. Both of the Boats were my brother's. Today they sit in his Cow Field sinking into the ground. I wanted to buy the 24' as it was the first real Sailboat I sailed and learned on (My Sentiment). But, Noooo! He not give an honest price, better to see them sink into the mud. But, I guess they where his first boats and he want to keep too.

I am very interested in what being said here as I am looking for the boat I "May" spend the rest of my life on. I invest in FOREX so watching world money exchange is not unfamiliar. Plus as I try to discern now, how this exchange affects the USA buyer.
I seen someone mention something along the lines of a percentage cut. Like if a boat ask price is 100 offer 50-60 (Example numbers). So, this have me thinking, maybe an offer price "Could" be 30-60% less than the ask on a used boat? I think I understood this?
But, here a quick run down. I plan to pay cash! My experience has been through the individual in the past, give them what we agree and I get title to the boat. No broker stuff. Never dealt with Brokers, though I did work in Real-Estate and have a concept of how they work.
I not ship my boat, I go get and drive/sail her home (Long story on that fix on the fly stuff).
So, if I not confused everyone.
IF, I looking at an old boat? (I love old boats [the ugly duckling] as they not look like everything else in the Duck Pond). I looking at a boat that down to it's last dollar (in a round about way). Would I be fair in offering 30-40% less than asking price? Especially through a Broker? OR, is the broker going to try to hold out for more, when the seller willing to take less?
I hope people see what I ask as this is important. But, as I told a woman friend, I not out to cheat or take advantage a seller. I am the type person that try to be fair in both directions. I know my maximum price I can pay and how low a fixer-upper cost to fix up (my minimum plus fixing).
I have a few boats that I really want and wait and watch. I will NOT buy until my budgeted time due to seasons and time to move my new home.
So, somewhere in all this is my question(s). Hope someone have the answer.
My opinion on this is such: Yes, you can get a good deal if you really wait. But not a steal. If you are waiting for the awesomely kept boat that the owner is going to take thousands and thousands under value on because the market is bad - you will never find it. Put yourself in his shoes: either you want to sell it because you cannot afford it (and would not have the money to make up the difference) or because you can no longer use it (but have the money so you will bide your time). The difference is that in a bad market, he will have to be realistic. And if you think you are better buying the cheapest boat that is a great deal becuase the owner is sick of it - you can bet it will have more issues than you bargained for.

Nah... get the boat that the owner has been "anal" and passionate about... and pay more for it. THat is my "recent buyer" advice and my opinion.

Did that make sense??

- CD
12-18-2007 11:09 PM
tommyt Jeff,

Thanks, I have seen loans that are structured like that. I agree however, that someone making good on one of those loans will not be in much trouble today. The banks are having enough trouble with real estate to worry about value on sailboat loans under a million.

Thanks
12-18-2007 09:10 PM
Gryzio
I may confuse everyone on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha_V View Post
And at any time when dealing in boats, you also have to wade through the boats for sale that are not *really* for sale.
Very true statement. Sometimes sentiment value is unattainable. I answered a question earlier about Sailing Simulators. I explained how I started. Both of the Boats were my brother's. Today they sit in his Cow Field sinking into the ground. I wanted to buy the 24' as it was the first real Sailboat I sailed and learned on (My Sentiment). But, Noooo! He not give an honest price, better to see them sink into the mud. But, I guess they where his first boats and he want to keep too.

I am very interested in what being said here as I am looking for the boat I "May" spend the rest of my life on. I invest in FOREX so watching world money exchange is not unfamiliar. Plus as I try to discern now, how this exchange affects the USA buyer.
I seen someone mention something along the lines of a percentage cut. Like if a boat ask price is 100 offer 50-60 (Example numbers). So, this have me thinking, maybe an offer price "Could" be 30-60% less than the ask on a used boat? I think I understood this?
But, here a quick run down. I plan to pay cash! My experience has been through the individual in the past, give them what we agree and I get title to the boat. No broker stuff. Never dealt with Brokers, though I did work in Real-Estate and have a concept of how they work.
I not ship my boat, I go get and drive/sail her home (Long story on that fix on the fly stuff).
So, if I not confused everyone.
IF, I looking at an old boat? (I love old boats [the ugly duckling] as they not look like everything else in the Duck Pond). I looking at a boat that down to it's last dollar (in a round about way). Would I be fair in offering 30-40% less than asking price? Especially through a Broker? OR, is the broker going to try to hold out for more, when the seller willing to take less?
I hope people see what I ask as this is important. But, as I told a woman friend, I not out to cheat or take advantage a seller. I am the type person that try to be fair in both directions. I know my maximum price I can pay and how low a fixer-upper cost to fix up (my minimum plus fixing).
I have a few boats that I really want and wait and watch. I will NOT buy until my budgeted time due to seasons and time to move my new home.
So, somewhere in all this is my question(s). Hope someone have the answer.
12-18-2007 07:43 PM
Sasha_V And at any time when dealing in boats, you also have to wade through the boats for sale that are not *really* for sale.
The husband promises his wife that he will sell the boat and settle....and that boat has worn five for sale signs until they have yellowed and cracked off....
The boat is for sale, but he is going to make sure you have to pry it from his cold dead fingers.

There are the people that do not see their boat as a mere asset but as an emotional expression of the love and inspiration that the universe can offer to the lucky sailor that is worthy of their craft (Mind the splinters, and try not to stand on that patch of deck over there, we don't think you'll fall all the way through, but...).

In short, far more then with cars or houses, even classic cars, you have to wade through the "Yes, but not really" items that muddy the waters of both buying a boat and being able to make reasonable comparissons and price charts.

Sasha
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