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Older Boats-How Long will they Last?

20K views 78 replies 38 participants last post by  156680 
#1 ·
I was just wondering about buying a well built, but much older boat.... lets use a well cared for Alberg 30 for example. The boat is already 40 years old. How long realistically can she continue to sail? 20 years? 30 years? more?
 
#52 ·
TB-

DNS stands for Did Not Sail???
 
#54 ·
Old glass

I do not think that all FRP hulls have finite lifespans; paradoxically, some of the oldest are the heaviest built and may outlast most newer ones. I have a Bermuda 40, launched in 1960. Blue Chantey has had 3 owners and 3 auxiliary engines, god knows how many sails (although I have a nice old nylon mizzen staysail with the date 1964 on it that still does the job), and has been refitted with wiring, tanks and various devices beyond numbering.

As for the hull (B40 #10), I removed the original jellcoat a few years ago and replaced it - the old one became cracked. The substrate, however, tested to be as sound as the day(s) it was first rolled into the mould. No core, of course, just matt and roving, layor after layor, including the deck.

As for myself, I would prefer an older boat if for no other reason than the new ones, with a few exceptions, do not reflect my personal idea of what a boat should look like.

Best of luck in your boat hunting.

Buell
 
#55 ·
Drinkorum,

Although somewhat counterintuitive, the insurance industry study of older fiberglass hulls suggested that the older heavier hulls were predicted to have shorter overall lifespans than newer lighter hulls due to their resin rich matrix's, higher non-oriented fiber content (mat), greater use of resin accelerators, and their lack of, or wider spaced internal framing.

Manufacterers like Dolf LeCompte were aware of the problem in the 1960's and advertised that they not using accellerators or resin rich layup, and many of the British builders were experimenting with internal framing systems. I am not sure what Hinckley was doing in terms of layup and accellorators but Hinckleys of that era did not have much on the way of internal framing.

Jeff
 
#58 ·
That study was available online for a while, but I have tried to find it in the past year without success. It is probably about 4-5 years old now.

It was a great source of info presented as three separate components looking at statistical data on repair costs to older boats vs newer boats in similar accidents, some case study data on actual accidents and repairs, and then the really telling part, destructive testing of actual hull panels cut from existing boats.

That was the part that was so amazing. To begin with, what surprised me was that older boats hull panels just were not all that much thicker and heavier than the boats that followed them. The report clearly concluded that the laminates themselves started out weaker than more modern layup schedules due to poorer construction techniques and went down hill quicker than modern layups as well.

The report also touched on other older boat issues such as prevelent use of discontinuous and lighter tabbing schedules, slurry hull to deck joints, more frequent use of encapsulated keels and the difficulty of making repairs to them once damaged. On the other hand, some of repair costs associated with these items were offset by the common practice of fully FRP lining modern boats.

Jeff
 
#59 ·
Jeff H

Is there an age line to distinguish between the older construction and the new construction techniques? I know there is a lot of talk of 0n late 70 early 80’s rosin formulas, are we to assume this same time period as distinguishing old versus new boats?
 
#60 · (Edited)
I don't think that there is a specific date after which materials and methods changed. I think that the evolution in building methods occurred at different times for individual builders and designers. Frankly, there are still boats being built with minimal internal structure and comparatively outdated laminating procedures.

Jeff
 
#61 ·
The answer is that no one really knows how long a fiberglass boat will last. When I was researching boats recently, I decided that condition was the most important consideration. I bought a 45 year old boat that surveyed very good. It was designed for cruising and heavily built.

My intent is that at the end of 20 years the boat will be in better shape than today, and my costs should still be less than they would be if I had bought a new boat.

I feel an obligation to her to see that she gets everything she needs to continue a great sailing life. She has earned the right to be cared for.
 
#62 ·
How old is my boat??

Last two digits of the hin is 74 but,

the boat was repowered in 1996,

the mast and rigging was replaced in 2006, thanks to hurricane ivan

the most of the interior was replaced in 1988

the winches got replaced in 2001

the sails was replaced in 2003

the hull was barrier coated 2005

so do i have a 33 year old boat, or do i average these years together??
 
#63 ·
Of all the system on a FRP sailboat the hull, baring some disaster, will be the last system to fail. The chainsaw will claim the hull after the engine siezes, the transmission fails, the sails blow out, the deck core rots, the rigging fails, the brightwork gets dull and ... all the other things that can go wrong with an old boat do. Or, some smuck like me will fall in love with the lines of this once beautiful creature and...you know the rest of the story.
 
#64 ·
Life span of GRP

What we call fiberglas actually gets stronger with age. Comparisons of aircraft metal fatigue with monocoque glass reinforced plastic failure is a stretch at best. I wouldn't worry about an old fiberglas boat breaking apart simply from age. A stoutly built boat from the '60's, and '70s will be sailing fine many years from now IF she's pretty enough to someone to be well cared for. I have one of Bill Shaw's Pearsons that we learned to sail on the past 12 years and she has no cracks or groans. She is sailed EVERY weekend 3 seasons in the ocean and at age 30 shows no signs of being "tired". When reaching at hull speed in 6' swells in 18 kts do I think of the hull breaking apart?

No I don't!

The one most important thing you can do to protect the hull of your boat in addition to a quality barrier coat is to keep the bilge bone dry. This is because the pool of water in a bilge is able to migrate into the laminate. I also like a bone dry bilge when I'm at the wheel and something goes bump. When a crew says "bilge is dry"- That's a lot better than "a little water".

A little water??!!! How much? More than before?? Check again!

No water is always best. Fit a drip-less shaft log and track down all the little leaks. Most leaks are a nuisance- at first. They ALL lead to degradation of the boat. If you have water coming in it most likely is wrecking something on its way to the bilge. Don't ignore fresh water leaks from the tanks. Fresh water causes osmosis faster that salt water because it is less dense.

You are off the hook for your GRP hull breaking apart simply from age. Neglect and lack of use are the real killers. Can you afford a yacht? Only if you can pay for it AND use it often too! If you can't sail often you're probably better off chartering-
 
#66 ·
What we call fiberglas actually gets stronger with age. Comparisons of aircraft metal fatigue with monocoque glass reinforced plastic failure is a stretch at best. I wouldn't worry about an old fiberglas boat breaking apart simply from age. A stoutly built boat from the '60's, and '70s will be sailing fine many years from now IF she's pretty enough to someone to be well cared for. I have one of Bill Shaw's Pearsons that we learned to sail on the past 12 years and she has no cracks or groans. She is sailed EVERY weekend 3 seasons in the ocean and at age 30 shows no signs of being "tired". When reaching at hull speed in 6' swells in 18 kts do I think of the hull breaking apart?
I'm not quite sure how you came up with this idea...but the glass fibers that provide fiberglass with most of its strength get weaker with age...and fatigue with flex and use. :rolleyes:
 
#65 ·
A boat can outlive the onwer

When I was younger I had worked for 2 different boat dealers. I seen some old fiberglass (Old for the time). Wood boats have had centuries (Plural) to prove themselves.

Fiberglass only has about a good century (OK, maybe not, it getting there). :eek:

There always the if, if this and if that. Heck, I can take a wood boat and with not care it be dead. Proper care it will live on. :p

What a person need to know is the reliability of the builder.

For example; a Herreshoff or Bruce Roberts designed boat; Fiberglass/Wood that not what matter.

It the Builder!

Many boats may be called by the name of the designer (The person who draw up the plans, like a house architect). I can buy Bruce Roberts plans today! I can build the boat! But, the bottom line ...... How good am I in doing this?

If, the builder try to cut costs and use Elmer's Wood Glue instead of Epoxy then his Herreshoff may not be a good idea.

So, to myself, it not if wood/fiberglass boats are good. I know some will be around after I am gone.

The question; "Is the builder still in business"? or if he dead/whatever; "Did he leave behind a legacy"? :D
 
#68 ·
When I was looking for a boat, I plotted the prices of all the boats I could find in the 35 to 40ft range. It was noticeable that depreciation worked quite well up to twenty years old. Prices stabilised around twenty to thirty years old and then went wild older than 40 years.

I think this means that boats built pre-1960 need a lot of love to keep them on the market, or even afloat. So there are some ancient beauties that are commanding high prices, but there is also a lot of scrap out there pleading for rescue.

Steel and Ali hulls have a scrap value.

Ferro concrete and GRP - how do you dispose of them?
 
#69 ·
A chainsaw and a dumpster. :) You can sell the lead or iron from the keel though.
When I was looking for a boat, I plotted the prices of all the boats I could find in the 35 to 40ft range. It was noticeable that depreciation worked quite well up to twenty years old. Prices stabilised around twenty to thirty years old and then went wild older than 40 years.

I think this means that boats built pre-1960 need a lot of love to keep them on the market, or even afloat. So there are some ancient beauties that are commanding high prices, but there is also a lot of scrap out there pleading for rescue.

Steel and Ali hulls have a scrap value.

Ferro concrete and GRP - how do you dispose of them?
 
#70 ·
hmm... the way I see it.. you can always add more fiberglass to reinforce any area that seems to be getting weak. how many of the 100 year old + boats have all thier original planks? I've abused my boat for the last 5 years.. she hasn't had bottom paint in 10 years, she's 1/2" thick at her tops and over one inch at her keel, she shows no blisters, and she still won't flex. granted she was build in a garage in 1971 by a man and his son, she's a good example of how long they can last unattended. she's been neglected as I've been sailing my catalina 27 all over the pacific. I've put over 90,000 miles on my catalina in the past 8 years and just lost her last week in the worst storm southern california has seen in 2 years.. as to why I was out in a storm... santa barbara harbor denied me safe harbor due to lack of funds since I had just lost my wallet and all my money.
let's see how many of the newer thin layup boats are still going strong in 30 or 40 years... I'll bet my thick frp boat is still going... I hope she is anyhow.
 
#71 ·
My former Dyer Dink is still going strong at 81yrs old. I did a complete restoration on her 20 yrs ago. My Cal25 is still very sound at 43 and my San Juan is like new at 24.

My former Lightning had a date with a chainsaw because of severe neglect by her first owner. His answer to maintenance was to slap on another layer of glass. I spent a couple of years chasing rot between sailing seasons then gave up and scrapped her.
 
#72 ·
Have to say the Fiber Glass failing and falling apart theory dosn,t hold much water. My 1975 Westerly Centaur just passed her 5 year survey with no structural issues. Shes built to Loydds of London standards and the hull is I inch thick GRP. There are a few small skin blisters below the waterline and I may pop and fill them someday. As they are superficial I recon she,ll see me out and my son has already decided he wants her in the will. Any boat can give problems but the solidly built GRP ones will take a fair bit of abuse and keep going.
Regards Brian
 
#74 ·
You, nor your offspring's offspring will see the day that this particular boat will collapse into a pile of glass and resin rubble. With minimal maintenance this boat should outlast anyone we know. If I am not mistaken, the USCG, as of several years ago, still had in operation a 1948 fiberglass boat. My brother recently sold his 1958 Pearson yawl to a young couple who sanded and painted the topsides, deck and house surface, installed new port lights and thru-hull fittings, replaced the wooden rudder with a fiberglass unit, restored the gasoline Atomic 4 and are now motoring about awaiting their new sails.
 
#75 ·
The fact is that no fiberglass boat has cracked in half and sunk. There is no record of a catastrophic failure of a fiberglass boat due to it's age. We simply do not know the "end-date" on a fiberglass boat's fiberglass.

Bad designs and building shortcuts along with poor workmanship would be my bigger concerns.

But it's fun to watch the know-it-alls go at it!

:) :) :)
 
#78 ·
thanks faster i couldn't remember the race my 1966 wayfarer islander Bahama 24 is up to 5 inches thick and 1 inch solid decks. sister ships have sailed around the world the only issue i have is with the deck seal on my pop top leaked and PO didn't fix it so now small rotten spot however not structural just nuisance for now tarped and will fix it in the spring (didn't show on survey last spring)
 
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