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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction > Running backstay specifications advice
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Thread: Running backstay specifications advice Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-10-2010 05:58 AM
puddinlegs
Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
The runners support an inner stay that might have a staysail or storm jib on it. I am looking for something that could be tightened up and released fairly quickly and moved forward when not needed.

Bruce
Bruce, the advice that someone posted about just getting the fairlead straightened out is probably the best answer. It doesn't sound like you're runners are structural (the mast doesn't fall down if you don't use them). Honestly, once the fairlead is worked out, keeping it on the windward winch, secondary or primary, is the simple solution. You can put in a substantial stopper, but you'll still need to load it on your winch when you release to avoid the shock load when the stopper is opened. I think if you check with a rigger, Harken or the like, they might even suggest a 2:1 depending on the size of your rig and sail loads.

We use check stays on our rig (34' boat) to keep the mast from pumping in rough water. They're long enough that they can be pulled forward to a small plastic hook on a bungee at the base of the shrouds when they're not needed... We use amsteel with outer covering for the lower 'working' area that passes through the aft turn blocks, stoppers, and finally, secondary self-tailing winches. It's a pretty simple set up that works well and can be tacked quickly. The ST winches eliminate the need for the stoppers going upwind, but we do use the stoppers going down wind to keep the secondaries free for spinnaker work.
09-05-2010 05:27 PM
Boatsmith I agree with the idea of getting a fair lead and using stoppers. I tried the same idea once on a Ross 930 and found that it was very difficult to get the same amount of tension on the runner. Using synthetic line for runners these days is the norm.
01-20-2010 02:55 PM
jmolan I had trouble truing to post photo's of my running backstay set up. I can leave them made up almost all the time as I have a wide base to attach them to. They (Like all my rig) are Dynex Dux synthetic rope. I believe I have a 4:1 block set up to tension things up. Making them out of rope makes it so much nicer to handle and move around. Should be a shot or two in the links below.
I helped to set up a Passport 47' with new synthetic runing backs. The boat was operated by two 70 yr. old ladies in Mexico. The were really stoked at the changes!
01-20-2010 05:26 AM
Newport41 I now realize that this is an old thread and nobody will accuse me of hijacking it . And I lied about the blocks. I'm going to have to use blocks built for runners. Harken 57mm air runners. They're only like $300, no big deal. I must have lots of money because I own a boat.
01-20-2010 05:05 AM
Newport41 I'm designing a similar system. The runners will be exactly as Sailboy has posted with a slightly different bungie setup. We have the secondary winches to make it more practical than a tackle. As for the blocks, I'm leaning towards Garhauer's series60 3 1/4" block rated to 3500lbs. I'd like to have everything rated above 4000lbs though. Not to hijack the thread, but is your inner forestay also going to be a high tech line or will it be wire? Anyone else want to weigh in on that one?
02-04-2008 12:10 PM
killarney_sailor
Thanks for the useful suggestions

Certainly goes to show that there more than few ways to skin any cat (or cutter).
02-02-2008 02:36 AM
sailboy21
Retractable runners

Here is the setup I found to work extremely well, simple and inexpensive. This setup is straight out of "Riggers Apprentice" by Brian Toss. Admittedly, this is for a removable inner stay on a sloop, but I don't see why it can't be used for a cutter. I used 1/4" Amsteel which has 8280lbs breaking strength (which exceeds most of the hardware used). The basic setup is Amsteel runner led to a turning block and then to a secondary cockpit winch. I spiced a cover on the tail for ease of handling. Midway on the runner is a light weight block with a length of bungee attached. The bungee runs to a turning block on the rail, and then up to the spreaders where it is anchored. It doesn't matter where the bungee goes, just that it has enough strength to retract the runner down to the rail. Since it is not in use most of the time, I tie the runner and bungee to the rail and aft lower shroud with wool yarn when not in use. This keeps a tidy deck, and allows for immediate deployment. I only use the runners when a storm jib on the inner stay is set, so for day sailing and sitting in the slip I climb the rig and remove them to save UV degradation, however the cost of replacing them every few years is negligible. A tapered eyespice and a cover spice with 12-strand is amazingly simple, so I consider this an end user serviceable system. Not so with wire unless you use mechanical terminals.

Bungee and amsteel (before cover splice):

Bungee and termination at spreader (runner also visible)

Rail turning block and wool ties:

Overview:

Result of splicing a Sta-Set (New England) cover onto Amsteel (Samson):
You can clearly see the "flying" block used to retract the runner. I used Harken Carbo Air blocks for their light weight, low cost, and synthetic cheek. Getting hit with glass filled nylon causes less pain than steel or aluminum.

And on my (And S/V Seaya's) way to #1 of 2 times going under the Golden Gate
02-01-2008 03:00 PM
Plumper That is the setup I have on my boat. Originally the runners ran back to the winches but didn't like it because it took a winch so I put in two tackles sized about the same as my vang. I am not sure they are big enough though. I don't think the mast would come down if one broke but I would not be able to point very well under just the stay sail without the runners. They are not original. The mast was designed without them but the previous owner thought it pumped too much. I had the rig completely retuned after I bought it and I don't get any pump. I think he just had everything too loose. The runners are good insurance though.
02-01-2008 02:43 PM
killarney_sailor
these are for support of an inner forestay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumper View Post
Are these check stays for sail shape or do they back an inner forestay and staysail?

Gaz
The runners support an inner stay that might have a staysail or storm jib on it. I am looking for something that could be tightened up and released fairly quickly and moved forward when not needed.

Bruce
01-30-2008 05:47 PM
Jeff_H I would look at reworking the lead so that it has a fair lead to the winch and adding sheet stoppers on each side to free up the winch. My backstay is a 32:1 cascade. You really don't want to do that.

Jeff
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