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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction > Catalinia retrofit article?
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Thread: Catalinia retrofit article? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-07-2008 06:29 PM
sailingdog John Vigor's book probably has much of the information you're looking for, as mentioned above, especially since you're interested in the Catalina 27, which is the boat that is detailed in the appendices.
02-07-2008 03:08 PM
Catalina274me
Catalina 27 not a Blue Water Boat

Blueranger,
As you can see by my login name I have a Catalina 27. It has been beefed up a little for the Oregon Offshore Race. But I know it's capabilities and would not do what you are planning on. I would coastal cruise with the right weather window but I mostly just cruise the Columbia River. The Columbia River Bar has scared the you know what out of me in this boat, but it can and has made it. You just can't add enough tankage without adding to much weight to go long distance IMHO. Just get a Real Blue Water boat.
Ed
02-07-2008 02:40 PM
Cruisingdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
Sorry, I didn't mean to touch any nerves. I should have mentioned that the model I'm looking at (but do not own) is indeed a Catalina 27. At the moment all I have is a daysailer. Either way I'm looking at a new (to me), larger boat that given my budget is going to take some overhauling and I'll be doing most of the work myself.

I'm looking for first hand experiences, educated opinions and anecdotal information. Just because someone has crossed the ocean in a 7 foot canoe doesn't mean I'm about to try it. Dove was only 23' IIRC.

On the other hand if I hadn't done a few things that were considered ill-advised I wouldn't have as rich a life (or as many crash and burns).

Eric, thank you for the excellent resources. Peace y'all, and thanks as always for the help and information. The experience on this board is a gold mine for us beginners.

Mike
Mike,

You did not touch any nerves. It is always a debated topic here... always will be. At that size, I think there could be better boat choices. Ask PBeezer about his boat. It would serve that purpose well. THere are others. There is a thread going right now in Gerneal Discussion on a poster that just went from HI to CA on a small boat... I cannot remember the make at the moment. Check with him too.

- CD
02-07-2008 02:36 PM
Cruisingdad That was a nice post Halekai. Just a few thoughts.

For where he was talkng about going, I think the 36 would be fine. I would opt for the MKII. Regarding the smaller models, we agree.

Heaven forbid he cannot choose his weather window to avoid a TS. Most likely, he will endure several strong storms that come up fast and leave fast.

I think the furniture would stay in place. I would install positive locks on any sliders - and on floorboards. The anchor locker also needs a positive latch/lock.

Tankage will be an issue on almost all of the models, with the exception of the 470 and 440 Morgan. It is easily added to on the 400 and 42. Not sure about the 380 (I owned one and cruised her for a while with the fam). I would have to rack my brains on where to add tanks. I am not a fan of gerry cans.

The stbd settee could be made into a sea berth for the 36. Did you do that?

Incidentally, my opinion is that you can go around the world in a Catalina (36 and up... maybe smaller with a LOT of luck). However, there are better boats made for that which would require less luck. That is not their design point. THe 440 and 470 have tried to bridge that gap somewhat for long range cruising. But there are other boats that fit that bill well also and may actually be less expensive.

THE ISSUE.... TO BE CONSIDERED BY ALL.... IS HOW WILL YOU PRIMARILY USE THE BOAT. If you are planning on circling the globe, I really think it is the wrong boat. If you are planning on occasional offshore runs in selective weather windows and primarily being coastal and island hopping - I think it is the PERFECT boat. Thus, I suggested that he would be fine on how the OP said he would use the boat: 36 and up. The 350 is an anomaly which I do not know well.

Nice thread and input.

- CD
02-07-2008 02:29 PM
blueranger Sorry, I didn't mean to touch any nerves. I should have mentioned that the model I'm looking at (but do not own) is indeed a Catalina 27. At the moment all I have is a daysailer. Either way I'm looking at a new (to me), larger boat that given my budget is going to take some overhauling and I'll be doing most of the work myself.

I'm looking for first hand experiences, educated opinions and anecdotal information. Just because someone has crossed the ocean in a 7 foot canoe doesn't mean I'm about to try it. Dove was only 23' IIRC.

On the other hand if I hadn't done a few things that were considered ill-advised I wouldn't have as rich a life (or as many crash and burns).

Eric, thank you for the excellent resources. Peace y'all, and thanks as always for the help and information. The experience on this board is a gold mine for us beginners.

Mike
02-07-2008 02:17 PM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
This is NOT a bash the Catalina brand thread. The question was is a C30 a good choice for the California Coast...through the PC and then to windward to the Caribe...the answer is NO...though MANY other catalinas could make the trip safely and you even might get LUCKY on a C30...but I doubt it.
Cam,

Before I responded to Blueranger I checked his profile and found no boat mentioned. I then read a few of his posts to discover he owns a Catalina 22 keel model. Unless this info has changed I had to assume he wanted to convert a Catalina 22 for blue water sailing.

Unless you know something I don't about Bluerangers current boat I had to consider, based on his previous posts, that he still owns a C-22 not a C-30.

There are plenty of capable Catalina's the C-42, C-387, C-380, C-470 & C-400 come to mind quite quickly but many are not capable of weathering a true tropical storm without some problems in stock fashion.

I say this with experience as I have owned a C-30, C310 & C-36 and have sailed them in some rough conditions and seen how they handle it compared to many other boats I've sailed. While they do handle it for short periods I would never want to be at sea for extended periods during a multi-day storm of 40+ winds and 10-20 foot seas in any of the Catalina's I've owned without serious modifications. My modifications would include tabbing bulkheads to hull and deck and tabbing interior cabinetry and furniture in place, reinforcing rudder supports, sleeving the hollow rudder post, making the companionway smaller and reducing cockpit volume (unless it's a walk through model). This is a short list but by no means the entire list of improvements I would feel necessary before I comfortably set out for a long crossing with a Catalina.

I would consider extended voyaging in a modified C-36 or perhaps even a modified C-34 but not a C-30, 32 or 310.

Can extended voyaging be done on a stock Catalina? Sure but you must time your weather windows very carefully. Having experienced, in 34+ years on the water, one hurricane, Nor' Easters, part of "The Perfect Storm" (moving a boat from MA to NH's Wentworth Marina) and numerous un-named storms of over 40+ knots at sea I know what I would feel comfortable with.

I think most on this forum have never truly experienced a violent ocean storm and fortunately or unfortunately I have. They are NOT fun and I don't wish one on anyone. No matter what you will probably be injured in "real storm" no matter how good you are or how careful. I've broken fingers, twisted ankles, required stitches, been hit by a flying hand held VHF, had a wine glass fly out of it's ceiling holder and smash to pieces on my head and been whipped so hard by a loose line with a stopper knot that within 30 minutes my eye was swollen shut and I only had vis from one eye. These are the realities of true offshore storms. Most of the storms I've encountered came early, changed course or were not ever predicted. Granted, today's weather reporting and forecasting is 10-20 times better than it was in the 70's, 80's or early 90's but things happen and being prepared pays off. The boats I've been on in those storms ranged from a 50+ foot Bud Macintosh designed wooden schooner to a Cape Dory 30 to a Shannon 50. I honestly can't say I would have felt comfortable or that any of my Catalina's could have survived those encounters without some structural damage.

In storms like this you don't have time to be scared because you're too busy! I can assure you though the LAST thing you'll want to be thinking about is the creaking noise coming from your bulkheads grinding against the hull and deck or that your rudder post is hollow or that your keel stub is laminated with plywood! Storms like this give new meaning to the word "SLAMMING" and yes even a very, very heavy wooden schooner or a Shannon 50 will SLAM, take green water, get pooped, knocked down and break gear!!

Call me overly cautious but unless you've physically experienced it (and watching the "Perfect Storm" or "The Deadliest Catch" on Discovery does not count) you have every right to NOT understand why some of us are overly cautions....


P.S. Blueranger please take a moment update your profile (under User CP) to include home port/sailing waters & boat brand, size and model. This can also be done in a signature and it helps tremendously when you ask a question here if other know what boat, size, model your questions pertain too...
02-07-2008 02:12 PM
T34C Peligro- Welcome! You picked as god a place as any to "jump in". Nice post.
02-07-2008 02:08 PM
Cruisingdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligro View Post
BlueRanger,

Appendix 2 of John Vigor's book - The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat - is titled Beefing Up a Catalina 27. It details how Patrick Childress modified his second-hand Catalina 27 (a shoal-draft 1973 model), Juggernaut, before (and during) his solo-circumnavigation. This would be the same Juggernaut mentioned in the post above by Slipkiller2.

Childress: "There is no advantage to the shoal-draft model except that the boat runs aground in shallower water."

The appendix lists 41 modifications, the vast majority of which seem fairly simple (depending on your definition of simple).

I highly recommend the book. Appendix 2 is only six pages, but the rest of the book is filled with great information.

Practical Sailor Magazine: Despite the fact that the Catalina 27 was designed and built as a coastal cruiser-racer, several have actually made circumnavigations. We don't recommend using the boat this way, but it goes to show that good preparation and seamanship may be more important than your boat when it comes to successful offshore voyaging.

Would I go in a Catalina 27? Probably not. But then again, I don't have a Catalina 27. If I did... well, I've done crazier things I suppose.

Side Bar: Hello everyone! Yes, this is my first post. I've been reading for a while but it's difficult to find a 'jumping in' place. Since I happened to have John Vigor's book here on my bookshelf, I thought the time was right.

Eric
Welcome aboard.
02-07-2008 02:07 PM
Cruisingdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
This is NOT a bash the Catalina brand thread. The question was is a C30 a good choice for the California Coast...through the PC and then to windward to the Caribe...the answer is NO...though MANY other catalinas could make the trip safely and you even might get LUCKY on a C30...but I doubt it.

BTW...Anyone in th Caribe hear anything about this CURRENT situation with a Catalina 38???
01/30/08Full Name : JRSC SAN JUAN
Street Address : 5 CALLE LA PUNTILLA Street Address2 :
HomeTown : SAN JUAN PRZipCode : 00901
Home_Country : UNITED STATESWork_
Phone_Number
: 787 289-2041
Home_Phone_Number
: 787 289-2041
Email_Address : SSJCC@uscg.mil
MessageType
: Lost_or_OverdueVessel_
Name
: RIPPER
Vessel_Description
: 38FT 1999 CATALINA WHITE HULL WITH BLUE TRIM.
Communications : VHF-FM.
Itinerary : DEPARTEDLAKE WORTH FLORIDA ENROUTE GUADELOUPE WITH STOPS IN CAYSAL,CUBA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, AND PUERTO RICO

Persons_on_board : DANIEL MAXIME 65 YEAR OLD MALE FRENCH NATIONAL. EVELAN MAXIME 58 YEAR OLD FEMALE FRENCH NATIONAL.
Reason : COAST GUARD DISTRICT SEVEN RECEIVED PHONECALL FROM SHIPS AGENT STATING SHE WAS CONCERNED BECAUSE VESSEL HAS FAILED TO ARRIVE ON SCHEDULE AND OPERATER HAS FAILED TO CONTACT HIS DAUGHTER.
Comments : THE UNITED STATES COAST GUARD APPRECIATES ANY ASSISTANCE
YOU CAN PROVIDE.
Have not heard it. WIll have to keep our thoughts out for them.

- CD
02-07-2008 01:59 PM
Peligro
The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat

BlueRanger,

Appendix 2 of John Vigor's book - The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat - is titled Beefing Up a Catalina 27. It details how Patrick Childress modified his second-hand Catalina 27 (a shoal-draft 1973 model), Juggernaut, before (and during) his solo-circumnavigation. This would be the same Juggernaut mentioned in the post above by Slipkiller2.

Childress: "There is no advantage to the shoal-draft model except that the boat runs aground in shallower water."

The appendix lists 41 modifications, the vast majority of which seem fairly simple (depending on your definition of simple).

I highly recommend the book. Appendix 2 is only six pages, but the rest of the book is filled with great information.

Practical Sailor Magazine: Despite the fact that the Catalina 27 was designed and built as a coastal cruiser-racer, several have actually made circumnavigations. We don't recommend using the boat this way, but it goes to show that good preparation and seamanship may be more important than your boat when it comes to successful offshore voyaging.

Would I go in a Catalina 27? Probably not. But then again, I don't have a Catalina 27. If I did... well, I've done crazier things I suppose.

Side Bar: Hello everyone! Yes, this is my first post. I've been reading for a while but it's difficult to find a 'jumping in' place. Since I happened to have John Vigor's book here on my bookshelf, I thought the time was right.

Eric
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