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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > comments on sabre 28, C&C 29, Catalina 30
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Thread: comments on sabre 28, C&C 29, Catalina 30 Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-03-2009 04:53 PM
ariel7x I have had my 84 29 Mk II for 9 seasons. Like any well bred mount one has to learn how to race her. Choice of sails/reefs is vital; also fast shaking out of the reef. There is a narrow slot going to windward in a breeze, no more that 5 degrees either way. Find the slot and you will be early at the weather mark and with her fast off/down wind speed and you are in contention.
Moma Bear
12-30-2008 11:25 PM
reycuban
Catalina 30

I bought an 1988 Catalina 30 wing keel last July which I had refitted. Wanted a sturdy,safe,comfortable,low draft good sailing boat. I have not been dissapointed. The Cat 30 met all expectations.
I am a cruiser mostly in Biscayne Bay and Keys so the shallow draft was important. The Cat gives you lots of room and people comfort.
Sails well, had out in 35 knts and sailed strong and safe.
Has a 150% genoa and an imperial main,all new.
New electronics by Raymarine.
So far,so good.
12-30-2008 10:23 PM
kirksneddon
C&C 29 mk II

Very good performance upwind. Well balanced and responsive up in moderate breeze. Keep it flat with reef in main and crew on rail (when available) and you will be pleased with heavy air performance. With proper amount of sail and sailed relatively flat, it remains easy to handle in a blow. If you are over canvassed it becomes a real handful and will round up. The 29 is less tolerant of being overcanvassed ("more tender") than the Sabre or Catalina 30 which are heavier displacement.

I bought my 29 Mk II 3 years ago and am very happy with the performance and build quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torrential View Post
It seems that the more sailboats I read about and look at, the more confused I become on the direction to take. I know about the quality and sailing characteristics of the sabre, but I have never sailed a C&C 29 or a Catalina 30 standard rig. I like the size of the 30 for overnights on the weekends but will i be disappointed with the way she sails after the sabre experience. I've read where the C&C 29 mkII is very tender and not so good up wind. Thoughts and comments would be appreciated.
12-28-2008 01:49 AM
flyingbits
Love my C&C 29

I live in Toronto, close to the heart of C&C land. A few years ago, I had the privilege of lunching with George Cuthbertson (one of the C's). Love my C&C 29 (even though George reportedly did not -- I never asked him). Over the years, I've had the pleasure of sailing and racing on dozens of C&C yachts ranging from 24' to 41'.

Last year, after a number of refits to update and restore our C&C 29 MK1 from the previous owner's cruiser set-up to the C&C design intended racer/cruiser format, we blew away many other PHRF yachts on most upwind legs. So much for the rumor that the C&C sucks upwind.

Yes she is tender, but if she is sailed right, she does not round up. Down below I find her quite roomy and with good head room. I'm 5'10 and I don't bang my head.

Aside from her sleek, traditional lines and other great features, I truly like the fact that at 29 feet, she costs me a lot less in slip fees than other yachts that provide similar enjoyment and performance. We're parked on a finger dock and sandwiched between a fleet of C&C 34s. When I tell visitors that my yacht is not a 34 but indeed 5 feet shorter, they look at the surrounding yachts and think I'm crazy. It truly is hard to tell at a glance that the 29 is not a 34. And with the cost of slip fees today, 5 feet less on the dock for equal fun truly is crazy!

Pound for pound, I heartily believe that the C&C 29 is a terrific yacht and a terrific buy.
04-10-2008 04:55 PM
blt2ski For boats the age you are looking at, All could potentially have some major issues, it is probably best to try and find a 30'ish foot boat that has been well taken care of etc vs trying to find a particular boat.

With that in mind, When we got current boat 3 yrs ago, I was thinking Cats, Newports, San Juan, C&C from the late 70's into the 80's. Was told to stay away from Jeannuea and Benateau, Lo and Behold, hopped on a Jeanneau Arcadia, wife fell in love, hated the others mentioned, we ought her from the original owner. Yes a few things to do, but a nice boat. Also a bit faster than the above boats too. PHRF as low as 155 in upper Cheasapeak, to as low as 191 in BC PHRF area. Generally speaking, faster by about 10-15 secs over boats mentioned, and about 20-30 secs slower than a J 30.

All are good old boats for what they were designed for.

marty
04-10-2008 01:53 PM
GeorgeB Out here in San Francisco Bay there a lot of C30s that race either in one design fleets or in YRA PHRF events. I can tell you from first hand experience that they consistently sail faster than their 180 ratings would indicate in our generally windy conditions (15-25kts). The only problem is you would have to get over the “stigma” owning a Frank Butler boat.
04-10-2008 01:18 PM
Moonfish The Newport 28 was a C&C design. It was my first boat (an '84 MkII), and I made all the same comparisons you are. Good combo of performance and comfort, build quality equal to or slightly better than some of the competition, and priced right. A good looker, too. In the end, I felt the N28 provided the most bang for the buck.
04-10-2008 12:13 PM
Sailormann General perception in this region is that the Sabre and the C&C will be built to a slightly higher standard than the Catalina. The C&C 29 was one of the last C&C models brought to market, hence benefits from things C&C learnt along the way. Personally, I would look for a C&C 30 rather than the 29.

If you are looking for a comfy cruiser that can still sail well - check out the CS30. It rates a bit lower then either of the three you have mentioned - yet has more room inside than the Sabre or the C&C.

CS 30 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada
http://www.patsturgeonyachts.com/brochures/cs30-1.gif
http://www.patsturgeonyachts.com/brochures/cs30-2.gif
http://www.patsturgeonyachts.com/brochures/cs30-3.gif


Find more info on C&C here: C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center
Including the following:

Quote:
The C&C 29 foot

The 29 MK I (and the 26) reflected the design thinking of the time which was to take some volume out of the underbody and put it in the topsides thus reducing wetted surface. 29 was distinctly flattened on the bottom adjacent to the keel. This flat was anticipated to provide some lift or planning effect when the boat was sailed relatively flat off the wind, thus further reducing wetted surface. This volume was placed above the water line in rather extreem topsides flair. This produced a "tender" boat at the dock and initially under sail. As the boat healed the flare became imersed and the boat stiffened markedly. The more flair imersed the stiffer it became and it is actually hard to get the the windows of a MK I wet. An additional benefit of this thinking was a very beamy and roomy interior above the water line where the space could be used for living and storage and indeed that part of the concept worked nicely. Unfortunately, as the boat healed and imersed all that topsides flair it started to slow down. The greater the angle of heel the more more the flair was imersed and the slower the boat went. Not literally, but relatively. The imersed flair created increased drag and had the unwanted consequence of providing a large surface for the water flow to tend to push the bow to windward. That combined with the rudder becoming less effective at greater angles of heel and the natural tendancy of a sailboat to round up made the 29 MK I difficult to keep going straight at high angles of heel.

Every 29 MK I owner has had unintentional and undesired round ups into the wind where the combination of the imersed hull shape and rudder made it impossible to prevent unless you had someone very quick on the sheets and sometimes even that didn't help. Holding the 29 off the wind at high angles of heel requires excessive rudder and that adds dramatically to drag. That is up to the point where the rudder stalls and you round up quickly. Sometimes so quickly, the boat will actually tack itself and that can create some very hairy situations on the race course. This design thinking was pretty short lived with 29 and 26 being the prime examples. They were getting pretty far away from it with 34 . Obviously, this design thinking wasn't the best idea C&C ever came up with. About the only solution is to sail the boat relatively flat (15 to 17 degrees) and keep that flair from imersing very far, much like you would sail a dingy. People racing MK I's will ease the traveller down, carry a luff in the main and when it really blows may carry the main almost fully aback while driving the boat on the jib. Sometimes you even have to feather the jib to keep it on its feet. Whatever it takes to keep the boat upright. Don't misunderstand, you can drive a MK I with the rail in the water and its as much fun as sailing any other C&C that way. You just have to accept the fact that the 29 next to you that's at 15 degrees with the main luffing is going to kick your tail.

While 29 was a great sales success for C&C with many one design fleets (some still going today) and is a pretty good looking boat, it left a lot to be desired from a design standpoint. It was one of Cuthbertson's least favorite designs. As racer / cruisers are not generally intended to be sailed like dingys and for the undesirable traits this design produced, the thinking was abandoned with only 29 MK I and 26 truly exhibiting that philosophy. 29 MK II, as I think we all know, is a toally different boat from a different time and the two designs share absolutely nothing in common except their name. The heel figures quoted for the MK II I would suspect are quite accurate.

Actually there is a lot good to say about the boat. The 29 MK I is a great light air boat both up and off the wind and a pretty good medium air boat. The cockpit is roomy and comfortable (with cushions) The decks are easy to get around. Because you should sail it flat, its pretty dry in a seaway. The cabin is huge for a 30 footer with lots of storage. You can feed or entertain 6 easlily in the saloon. You can drive it with one finger. Upwind in light to medium air it is so well balanced that you can set the brake and it will sail itself for 10 or 15 minutes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think its a good looking boat with a pretty sheer line. It handles well under power and backs down nicely - even with a Martec. The galley is compact and well laid out. The boom is high enough so most don't hit their heads.

And, of course, its a C&C.
04-10-2008 10:31 AM
sailingfool I'd start off mentioning I am a big fan of C&Cs and owned a C&C 30 I for a number of years, a boat I still consider the best I've owned, and one I'd recommend over anything else in that size range.

Here are the phrfne.org ratings for these boats:
Sabre 28 198
C&C 29 I 174
Cat 30 180

(Do you really mean the C&C 29 II or the first model?, the II rates 171, not many of these around.). I'ver always felt the Sabre 28 to be a bit of a blah design, well made but not too exciting and it is disctinctly slower than the other two. The C&C 29 is a nicer design, but it is somewhat tender, many racers would add a 6 inche lead shoe to the keel and take some rating points to improve the situation. It doesn't have much room below for the length, especially headrooom forward due to the low overhead. The Cat 30 is a classic design, fairly roomy, solid, good sailor.

If sailing performance were the primary concern, I'd go with the C&C (or better yet a C&C 30 I), for all around cruising, you can't beat a Cat 30, and they are fine sailing boats. I don't think the Sabre has anything special from sailing charachteristics, I'd go with the faster performance of either of the orther two without a second thought.
04-10-2008 07:48 AM
torrential
comments on sabre 28, C&C 29, Catalina 30

It seems that the more sailboats I read about and look at, the more confused I become on the direction to take. I know about the quality and sailing characteristics of the sabre, but I have never sailed a C&C 29 or a Catalina 30 standard rig. I like the size of the 30 for overnights on the weekends but will i be disappointed with the way she sails after the sabre experience. I've read where the C&C 29 mkII is very tender and not so good up wind. Thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

 
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